Calling all IJN Takao-class (高雄型) fans

[chuck]

The open 5" mounts on the Takao must have been supplied from external ammunition hoists. Where are these hoists on the Takao and are there any photos of the hoist head? Also, the Japanese 5"/40 used a separate fuse setting machine positioned on its own stand instead of a breech face fuse setter used in many other similar DP guns. Where does the fuse setting machine sit near the 5" mounts on the Takao?

[Dan K]

Good questions and don't know that I've ever seen such a hoist. Would have to check AOTS Takao for starters. Not obvious in my available photos.

[Dan K]

I actually had 3 nanoseconds to check the AOTS volume. No such hoists are indicated. Everything appears to be hand loaded from ready ammo boxes located around the mount.

The plan view for 1933 shows a 12cm ammo room/magazine, labeled #1 12cm ammo room, deep in the ship just aft the magazine and ammo handling rooms for #3 turret. I can find no others. I would assume this was converted to handling 12.7cm shells in 1942.

[Guest]

I'm preparing to begin building the new Aoshima 1/350 Takao 1944... fun fun. I've been researching photos and can't find any evidence of the splinter shields being used in 1944 for any cruisers. A mention was made that they were not used late in the was due to the fact that they were ineffective. Does any one have photo evidence of this for any cruiser?

Also, I found a photo in the Classic Warships book which shows that the degaussing cable was removed at some point during/before she was in Singapore as a AA battery. Any evidence when this might have been done?

Thanks in Advance Randy

[Dan K]

Splinter shields for the 25mm AA were in use at the end of the war. Steel splinter shields for surrounding the emplacement positions was less common, and varied by ship and position.

Yes, the degaussing cable was removed at some point due to ineffectiveness, but there is no clear record when. I tend to believe it wasn;t removed until Takao ended up at Singapore, but I could be wrong. Certainly several ships undergoing extensive refits, along with new construction, did not receive external cables as early as 1943.

Attached are two frames from a Birtish film taken postwar. You can see the shield for the 25mmAA in the 2nd.

[chuck]

I actually had 3 nanoseconds to check the AOTS volume. No such hoists are indicated. Everything appears to be hand loaded from ready ammo boxes located around the mount.

The plan view for 1933 shows a 12cm ammo room/magazine, labeled #1 12cm ammo room, deep in the ship just aft the magazine and ammo handling rooms for #3 turret. I can find no others. I would assume this was converted to handling 12.7cm shells in 1942.

Hmmm, at a rate of 10-14 RPM per barrel, a 10 minute engagement would use up over 1000 5"/40 shells. It seems unlikely that there would be 1000 rounds of 5" fixed ammunition showed in boxes on deck. If the ammo boxes are intended to be replenished in the midst of battle, that would still leave the requirement for ammunition hoist.

The 5"/40 mounts inside dome shaped shield used on the Yamato and Japanese carriers evidently can not use either external ammunition hoist or large ready use boxes. So these must have internal ammunition hoists leading right up to these mounts inside the shield. To allow the whole thing to train, the hoists probably have to lead right up through the middle of the roller path of the mount. Perhaps the standard 5"/40 open mount also incorporates the same ammunition hoist that leads right up through the center of the roller path of the mount. The function of the little "dog house" on the right hand side, looking forward, of standard Japanese 5" mount is not explained in any illustration of the mount I have. Perhaps this is the head of the hoist? If the theory of a hoist integrated into the mount is correct, then it would explain why on Japanese carriers, where 5"/40 mounts installed on cantilevered platforms jutting out the side of the ship is always supported from below by a thick tubular structure leading up to the spot directly under the roller path of the mount. The thick tube houses the ammunition hoist.

[Dan K]

Your last post was intriguing so, I took a look at the Hara Shobo plan book. What several of the CV plans, especially Hiryu, seems to show is that what I've always thought of as the crew stations between, say the forward 12.7cm mounts 1 & 2, and 3 & 4, is packed with ready ammo boxes. Further, at least for Hiryu, there does seem to be a magazine within the ship's hull at the level underneath this area. OTOH, There does not seem to be anything contained within the mount support.

[chuck]

Your last post was intriguing so, I took a look at the Hara Shobo plan book. What several of the CV plans, especially Hiryu, seems to show is that what I've always thought of as the crew stations between, say the forward 12.7cm mounts 1 & 2, and 3 & 4, is packed with ready ammo boxes. Further, at least for Hiryu, there does seem to be a magazine within the ship's hull at the level underneath this area. OTOH, There does not seem to be anything contained within the mount support.

It's expected that AA guns should have ready use munition stowed nearby to facilitate a rapid response and high initial rate of fire when the ship is surprise, as it would be before effective air warning radar. I am still doubtful that ready use munition around open 5"/40 mount is meant to last through not just the initial phase but the entire engagement.

IN any case, the dome shaped smoke proof shields on the 5"/40 mounts behind the funnels doesn't seem to have any openings in the back to allow ready use ammo to be manually delivered from outside. In any case the smoke would make manual munition delivery from outside impossible, thus nullify the function of the smoke proof shield. The shield seem to small to accommodate any significant number of ready use rounds inside. So the dome shaped 5" turrets at least should have some form of internal mechanical ammunition delivery system, which in a rotating turret could only come through the center of the roller path. But inspection of pictures and model of Shokaku shows the support for the dome shaped turrets are essentially identical to those for the open mounts forward and on the other side of the ship. This suggest whatever mechanical ammunition transfer mechanism serves the dome shaped turret also serves the open turrets.

Do you have any illustration of Japanese 5"/40 type 89 mount which indicates the function of the small compartment to the right side of the barrel that has a vertical slot like opening in the back? I am guessing the slot in that compartment is where shells sent up through the hoist emerges to be picked up by the loaders.

[Dan K]

I have a drawing from the Gran Prix Shuppan book on IJN DDs. Not sure if it's helpful, though.

[Dan K]

Plus this photo, source n/a

[chuck]

The little compartment on the right hand side of the mount is labeled in Japanese, which unfortunately is beyond me. In the photo, the slot in that compartment I referred to where I guessed new rounds of ammunition sent up from the hoist would come out is just to the right of sailor standing next to the loading tray of the right hand side gun.

I also have found no reference to where fuse setting machine located is near the open 5" mount, although ATOS illustrates such a machine in isolation.

[Gilbert]

I also have found no reference to where fuse setting machine located is near the open 5" mount, although ATOS illustrates such a machine in isolation.

Chuck,

According to Naval weapons of WW2 by John Campbell, page 193 "Fuze-setting machines were fixed to the breech faces of the guns..."

Cheers

Gilbert

[MartinJQuinn]

I'm thinking of populating my 1/700 PitRoad Maya with some 1/700 Eduard IJN Figures. There are three or four different types of uniforms on the PE set. Two questions - is this set even appropriate for Maya (not sure if this was made for a CV) and if so, which color uniform(s) would be appropriate for a Leyte Gulf Maya?

TIA...

[Dan K]

While I kow at least one of the mfgs. issues an IJN CV set of figures, I don't know if this is it. Color-wise, the general rule seemed to be blue in winter, white or khaki (and often shorts) in warm climates.

[jean]

Here is my rendition of IJN CHOKAI in August 42. It is the Aoshima 44 retrofit to 42 and I have made great use of D Kaplan 1/700 model as it was not evident to determine the correct configuration for her at that period. You might find some mistakes here and there but I can live with them. Color is Yokosuka gray. Lorre Perry set for the Takao was put to great use, the Takao set from Lion's raor to a lesser one, their photo etch is too fragile mainly on the railings. Anyway I had a lot of fun with this model, I now have a Mogami and a Myoko waiting for me! Best regards from France, jean.

[Dan K]

She looks great, Jean. Is this 1/350 scale? - I can't tell

I hope you send in photos to post in the gallery.

[Jean]

You are correct Dan, 1/350. And of course you may published the pics in the gallery. Regards, jean.

[J. Soca]

Indeed! she looks great Jean


Jose

[Jean]

Merci beaucoup Jos�, hasta la vista!, Jean.

[riley.r]

Everyone

Check out this build I've started of the Takao in '44

Part 1 http://ipmsorlando.com/index.php?topic=163.0

Part 2 http://ipmsorlando.com/index.php?topic=169.0

regards Randy Riley