Calling all Royal Navy Tribal-class fans

[dick]

After that comment I got a copy of the plans from the NMM and did detailed scale measurements which confirmed the impression you get from photos - the model's bridge is too high.

Cheers

[HMS Zulu]

Hi Dick, by how much is the bridge too tall?

[dick]

I knew you were going to ask that! About 1mm if memory serves me right. Having now filed mine down (in fact bottom up) and completed the model I cannot repeat the exercise to give you the exact answer. If I buy the Zulu kit I will have to re-measure but I'm not sure I want to waste my money on what I assume is simply a re-box of the same parts as Eskimo and which produces a model that I feel does not really capture the look/character of a Tribal when completed - even with many of the mods Graham suggests. It would be good if someone could post a picture of a completed Loose Cannon Cossack so that one could see what that looks like. If its good, maybe I'll save up for that.

Best wishes.

[Graham Boak]

Thanks for the correction, particularly as I have not finished my model yet and can make it better.

[Tim Stoneman]

MATABELE and ASHANTI carried a multi-coloured camouflage (described as First Admiralty Disruptive) in the 1941-42 period. There's a photo of MATABELE's port side at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Matabele.jpg, and others of ASHANTI's port side in the same scheme have been published. There are several photos of what I believe to be the starboard side of the same scheme in various books (it looks vastly different). A colour profile of ASHANTI's starboard side and MATABELE's port side appear in the David Lyon's long-out-of-print Warship Profile No2: HMS Cossack (London: Profile Publications).

Does anyone know what colours were used?

Tim

[Squealus]

Hi Tim,

I'm after the same info.

Here's another photo to help jog some memories.

Min

[macccdale]

Does anyone know if Trumpy will upscale the Tribals in to 1/350? I havent got the eyesight to do something so small as their 1/700. Intersting to see HMCS Huron, my Dads hip in WW2.

[Mike W]

Just back from Telford with Trumpeter's 1/700 HMCS Huron. Basically the same kit as the Eskimo but with the higher deck level pom-pom and twin 20mm guns (1944 fit). I will be replacing all the armament except for the pom-pom and have the new WEM etch. I'd love to do the model with the lattice mast in the etch set but I don't know if the Huron was fitted with one. So can anyone tell me first of all whether or not the Huron was ever fitted with a lattice mast in ww2 and if so when?

[dick]

Yes, very late 1944.

Are the model's twin 20mm those strange things as in the Eskimo kit with the barrels one above the other rather than side to side as they should be?

[Mike W]

Yes they are - it's the same kit as Eskimo with a couple of extra parts for the aft deckhouse. The model also has a seperate Low angle and High angle directors just like the Eskimo but I keep seeing pics of late war tribals with what looks like a single ha/la director - which is correct? Also the twin 20mm guns - should they have the armoured box or not?
thanks
Mike

[Mike W]

I remembered I have Friedman's book on RN Destroyers + Frigates and i've been reading that combined with the Shipcraft book and Whitley's book on ww2 destroyers and my conclusion is the kit is wrong for Huron. As far as I can tell, Huron and Haida were built with a combined ha/la director unlike the kit which is configured like Zulu and Eskimo with the seperate directors. The kit is much closer to Athabaskan 1943 if you use the lattice mast in the WEM etch set.
So now I'm thinking of making the kit as Athabaskan instead. This raises 2 questions as I only have the side elevation drawings and colour scheme. First question - did she have 5 or 6 twin 20mm guns? Second question - what should the correct deck colour be?

thanks
Mike

[dick]

With the separate directors the kit will, as you say, be closer to Athabaskan(1) and also to Iroquois. Both completed with 6 single 20mm. Athabaskan kept them until Sept 1943 I think (at which point she received the lattice mast also).

If doing Athabaskan with single 20mm and tripod mast you have a choice of two colour schemes.

For decks I would suggest a medium grey on metal areas, but the majority was covered with Semtex which at this stage of the war was green when new (as shown on this model of Haida) but presumably faded and dirtied fairly quickly.

[dick]

If you are thinking of doing Athabaskan (1) with lattice mast then you need to give her 6 twin 20mm in place of the single 20mm. Again you have a choice of two colour schemes: late 1943 and as sunk in Spring 1944.

Beware of the Shipcraft book. Much detail in it is wrong. The colour suggestion for Athabaskan on page 46 is hopelessly so. The pattern drawn is what she wore in 1944 - but MS1 was a very dark grey and if you painted your model MS1 where suggested it would look very strange indeed!

[Mike W]

Looking at the pics and my WEM RN paints I agree, where they got MS1 from I don't know, seeing as they say thats what to paint the lighter areas with! The light areas look more like AP507C and the darker areas possibly B5 or AP507B - would anyone else agree? Also I would expect the non-semtex covered decks to be in a dark grey, possibly AP507A or G10/MS1 - again any comments?

thanks
Mike

[dick]

Alan Raven gives the colours for Athabaskan's final scheme as white and B55

[Mike W]

That would work too - i'm sure some of the others had the same colours. Any thoughts on the decks though? Also for the twin 20mm - armoured box or no armoured box? I want to get the WEM aftermarket ones but I can't tell which they are off the drawings.
thanks
Mike

[dick]

When you talk of armoured box or not I presume you are referring to the difference between the unpowered US twin 20mm

20mm twin.jpg (41.89 KiB) Viewed 5646 times

and the powered British twin mounting.

A_022088.jpg (14.9 KiB) Viewed 5644 times

The Canadian Tribals had the powered British twin mounting, seen here on Huron.

(The contrast between the PO's dark uniform and the deck may help you decide on the tone of the deck grey.)

[Mike W]

WEM do 2 different types of RN powered MK V twin 20mm mounts - one with an armoured operators box and one without. I'm guessing the armoured ones went on battleships and cruisers. It's hard to tell with the pics on the WEM website how different the mounts look.

thanks
Mike

[dick]

I cannot see any obvious difference between the twin 20mm mount on battleships and Canadian Tribals. Here are two on Valiant's X turret.

I have seen stripped down mounts on MGBs.

Perhaps best to ask WEM what the difference is and for which ships. If you do please let me know their answer.

Best wishes.

[Admhawk]

Also I would expect the non-semtex covered decks to be in a dark grey, possibly AP507A or G10/MS1 - again any comments?
thanks
Mike

Mike, from what I can see on a few small colour images, it looks like rust coloured decks to me!

507B or MS2 look closer in some pics.

However, this photo shows what looks like G20 on the main deck of a River class frigate in 1945 with what appears to be 507B or MS2 on the fwd bridge overhang and maybe brown semtex on the gun deck?