Standard Ms 12 patterns? If there is a set of rules on Ms 12 patterns I would like to read it.
The radar on her director is a Mk 4.
Many of the early destroyers that transferred to the Pacific from the Atlantic had the housings removed from some or all of the aft mounts.
Here are the only images I have of Sterett.
DD-407 Sterett on 26 May 1942 (same as you have posted) ... I see six 20-mm guns.
DD-407 Sterett in a photo dated 16 February 1943 (found at NARA with this date) ... seems late for Ms 12 and photos taken at Mare Island after her repairs 6 February 1943 (Navsource) shows her in Ms 21 and with two twin 40-mm mounts. Likely taken Summer-Fall 1942 just before or after arriving in the Pacific. I see the same six 20-mm guns, but can't tell what is aft of the TT mount on the main deck.
DD-407 Sterett in 1943 after being repainted in Ms 21 and after two twin 40-mm mounts were installed.
I don't know. These photos were taken before at least Benham was upgraded in February 1942. I'm just trying to determine if it is possible to know the difference in photos from 5-S and 5-N. But, given that Enterprise is in 5-D, that may not be possible. If the photos were taken prior to 7 December 1941 ... wouldn't that point to 5-S?
I don't know. These photos were taken before at least Benham was upgraded in February 1942. I'm just trying to determine if it is possible to know the difference in photos from 5-S and 5-N. But, given that Enterprise is in 5-D, that may not be possible. If the photos were taken prior to 7 December 1941 ... wouldn't that point to 5-S?
This memo that Tracy posted on his site says all new construction and conversions in the Pacific were to be 5S, while this earlier memo says that 5D is going to be discontinued and be replaced with 5S, 5O and 5H. I'm certainly no expert, but if I had to guess, I'd say the DDs in the photos were 5S...but it's pretty difficult to tell from B&W photos.
Martin
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne
I'm REALLY not a paint/camo expert. I have seen a lot of Ms 21 photos at NARA/NHHC, but I have found few early war or in this case possible JUST pre-war photos of ships in the Pacific. The paint on these destroyers just looks DIFFERENT than the Ms 21. It could be the film or it could be the paint. The paint sure looks to be very FRESH, compared to the worn and somewhat chalky 5-N, so I suspect 5-S as well.
Anyone know of any close up pictures of the forward superstructure of the rebuilt USS Cassin (DD-372)? There are some photos of her at Mare Island on Navsource, but the closest I can get to the superstructure is this photo of Cassin and this photo of Downes. I'm looking for views of the back of the superstructure as well.
Martin
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne
Boy Martin you are lucky. I found these images of CASSIN in the background of photos taken of another ship at Mare Island that I was scanning. Since I have this CASSIN model that "someday" I'll get around to building, I scanned a couple of interesting and quite nice views of this ship.
The two overall views I have:
And Close-ups from those two views (the vertical "blur" on the last image was on the original print):
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne
Something to note in photos 1 and 5. The after superstructure is not of uniform width. Check under the 40MM tubs to see where it changes. The forward part is barely wider than the torpedo tubes that are mounted on it. The after part is significantly wider than the forward part. Midships got this wrong on their Cassin model. (And therefore goofed on the width of the after superstructures of the other Mahan kits.)
On photo #5 (next to last), look at the raft attached to the vertical supports at the outboard edge of the twin 40MM. Just (barely) to the right of the raft is a vertical line, darker on the left and lighter on the right, which is where the deckhouse turns inward toward the narrower part. If you have one of the Midships 16-tube DD kits, compare the width of the after superstructure to the Cassin's. They should be the same by the #3 5" mount, but the Cassin's is measurably narrower. In fairness, there is probably an extension under the 40MM tub that exaggerates the inset in the photo, but the two sections of the structure should not be the same width forward and aft of that point.
I have a friend that is building the Midship Gridley as the McCall DD-400. He's trying to corrrect the funnel base from what is in the kit.....along with many other inaccuuracies. Does anyone here have a photo, drawing, etc. or know of one on the net that shows this structure with any clarity? I've checked Navsource and Destroyer History for photos but they are inconclusive. Any help would be appreciated.
Here are some close-up images from larger images ... most were not focused very well, but I tried to capture the stack area over a couple of years. Sorry, I have no photos of McCALL herself.
GRIDLEY (DD-380) on 10 November 1943.
CRAVEN (DD-382) in about December 1941 (I think this undated photo ranges from about November 1941 to January 1942).
As far as having a definitive drawing or photo, I don't think I have ever seen one. The Gridley funnel (on Gridley, Craven, McCall, and Maury) is unique and you are correct in that Midships didn't even come close. The funnel base is not symmetrical. There were 4 boilers. The forward most and after most were trunked on the starboard side. The two middle ones were trunked to port. There were also 4 of the old-fashioned air intakes (like the one Indiana Jones hid in on the ship in Raiders of the Lost Ark), 2 per side. You should be able to ID most of these features in Rick's photos.
The Midships funnel is a mix of Gridley and Bagley funnel features. It is too narrow (side to side) for a Bagley, but too "wide" fore and aft for the same ship. The width (side to side) isn't too bad for the Gridley, but isn't long enough fore and aft for that ship. I have started my own versions of both funnels and plan to mold them for resin casting, but they are as yet unfinished. (I am also doing the Benham funnel, with the same lack of progress.) It has taken many photos and much interpretation to come to some level of understanding, so don't feel bad in not finding much.
hi guys.....floating drydock has exelent plans for the gridly class benham class....compairing the two you will see the uptakes gridley's are very high as the benham is a lot shorter you will also see that the gridly stack is slab sided where as the benham is more oval in shape....iv'e built both classes in 1/48 scale....my 2 cents..... ....joe
Dick J wrote:"...I have started my own versions of both funnels and plan to mold them for resin casting, but they are as yet unfinished. (I am also doing the Benham funnel, with the same lack of progress.)..."
...may I kindly purchase a number of these from you. While I am getting a bit gray around the muzzle to worry about a certain lack of fidelity in details, I noticed this business of the funnels and uptakes early on and I don't like them.
Dick J wrote:"...I have started my own versions of both funnels and plan to mold them for resin casting, but they are as yet unfinished. (I am also doing the Benham funnel, with the same lack of progress.)..."
...may I kindly purchase a number of these from you. While I am getting a bit gray around the muzzle to worry about a certain lack of fidelity in details, I noticed this business of the funnels and uptakes early on and I don't like them.
Randy
You are certainly welcome to some when I get them finished. However, I have had them "in the works" for a while, and we both might be a bit more gray before I get them done! (BAD case of AMD - focus, focus, focus . . .)
I think you must have some wrong info in the first post Martin. I just saw the Freetimehobbies site, and I clearly see that all of the Midship plastic kits are in production, but some are out of stock. I just setting the record straight for everyone. I'm thinking about getting one for conversion to a mid or late war fit, but I'm thinking thats impossible for me.
Current builds:
Hobby Boss 1/700 Type VIIC U-Boat for my AH
....joe
