1/350 Kirov (Trumpeter Modified)

[carr]

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[Neptune]

Hi Bob,

small correction, this device is used for reloading the SA-N-6. Practically there is a conveyor belt in this structure, they load the missile on top of this thing. The thing slides it into the hatch, there it is taken by a small railway car and driven to its place on one of the VLS launchers below deck.
That same structure can be found on all Rif/SA-N-6 vessels, including the Slava class. There it is only on port side as they have only two rows of VLS launchers (1 system), where the Kirov has 2 systems. If you have two rows and you put a loop of rails around them, you can reach every VLS cilinder as they are rotating. If you have three rows and you put a loop around them you can't reach the inner ones, so two systems seperate loops are required to reach each VLS module. I don't know why they didn't use an interswitch between two rail systems though, perhaps there is something in the construction of the ship preventing that, like a longitudinal bulkhead (which I suspect to be present on Kirovs).

Another small note in case you wouldn't believe me, all Kirovs have this reloader, while the Silex is not mounted on the last three of the class, in addition of course to the Slava class which also has the reloader while she doesn't carry Silex. And also on Slava it's mounted just in front of the Rif VLS system.

Anyhow yours looks nice!

[carr]

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[Neptune]

Nothing embarassing there, I should have mentioned it before. I did quite some research about this particular system, as well as the Kinzhal and other Russian VLS systems. A few years back though. Anyway, that's why I knew the answer from the top of my head as well as the Slava connection (as well as the Azov connection of which a picture can be seen here. Notice the device in "working" condition.


the larger version of this picture is around somewhere too, but I don't have much time to look for it. This picture is taken aboard the Kara cruiser "Azov" which was the test ship for the Rif.

Here you can see the aft part lifted, as it's obstructing the deck rail system on Slava in down position. Occasionally they seem to remove these devices too, perhaps on long deployments.

[carr]

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[gywain]

Hello carr, focus on your work for a long time, because I come from China, a model enthusiast, and English is also not good, so they can only be silent about your paste, turn on the computer almost every day look at your work progress, ha ha ... ... I am your fan, your work really is a big project, it is looking forward to the finished product, but I recently posted in your masterpiece you can not see inside, and pictures are XX, very upset, so you can trouble making the process work pictures sent to my mailbox you? very grateful to carr predecessors and look forward to your masterpiece, I would have been concerned about your work to the end. My email address (gywain1314@163.com)
I use Google translation, carr older can read it?

[Neptune]

The SS-N-19 can't be reloaded by the ship itself. I assume, and that really is just an assumption from my part, that she is reloaded in the same way as the Oscar class. Considering the supports mounted on deck for the reloading cradles and of course the inclined nature of the VLS for Granit. I'll get you a picture of that process and equipment if nobody else beats me to it.

The "kingpost" on portside, which I assume is the one in front of one of these Rif VLS reloaders, is used for Replenishment at Sea, the same one can also be found just in front of the Slava Rif reloader as well as on various other classes. It's used in general for RAS, but I think it also has something to do with the Rif reloading, possibly for reloading at sea, which would mean they can only reload 8 of their launchers instead of all 12. I think I already posted a picture over here or in the Calling All Ship fans topic, about the Kirov using this kingpost to receive a torpedo.

About Silex I don't really know. I guess we'd have to go way back to the Kresta class to find the answer to that, as the Kresta I class is the only class I'm aware of with the very same Silex, in that case Metel, launcher. Also the Krivaks have a similar weapon, but with four tubes and no onboard reloads, so not really similar either.

The small crane near the portside kingpost, please post a picture of what you mean. I can't really get an image from the top of my head of this equipment. I'll check in my archives in the meanwhile too.

[carr]

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[carr]

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[Neptune]

Hiya Bob,
so here we go, the Granit loading system. I suppose it's pretty much the same for the Kirov class, considering her supports etc.
That's one of the major drawbacks of the Russian Navy. They need a seperate cradle for each and every SSM in their fleet, and they use a lot of different ones...


The aft thing is not a crane itself. I think it actually is a stored reloading cradle. As you can see the fixed supports on the deck are just supports. The device is sitting in those and actually has four supports itself pointing down and outward, but not touching the deck (the missile container would then be sitting between those supports). Those are fitting in the Rif reloader's upstanding supports I think. So I suppose technically this is a solution for their reloading problem. At least for the Rif SAM system they carry their own cradle, allowing them to reload about everywhere as long as the missiles are available, perhaps even at sea using that Kingpost. For the SSM's the cradles are always stored in port.
I'm not sure about the above, but I can recall a picture of the Kirov loading SA-N-6's with that missile in the cradle, I'll check if I can find it somewhere and compare that cradle, perhaps you have that picture??? It was Black and white as far as I remember.

Another option would be that it's a general purpose device for RAS, placing it over the rail system on deck after transferring a torpedo or missile, and then lower that missile or torpedo on a railway cart which they use to transfer it to its designated place. But I doubt the latter explanation myself.

EDIT: In this picture
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/168/02168027.jpg
you can see the elevator for the Rif on the left. On the left upper corner you can see the hatch (black hole), next to which the reloader you've built is standing.

[carr]

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[Neptune]

Sorry, my mistake. The Kresta I has two twin launchers, I forgot that these were for SSMs rather than ASW/Metel weapons. The reason I wasn't referring to Kresta II is indeed for these quadruple boxes, which are reloaded with their own specific cradle.

As for item "A", it is present on other units of the class. I recently was looking at a picture of Velikiy in the "Calling all ship fans" topic where it was very clearly shown, in colour on Velikiy This is the picture I'm referring to:

It does seem to have some alterations, I think it's rebalanced to be able to attach it to a single hook on a crane rather than four slings on the older version (I'm referring to the up-side down cone shaped thing on top of the cradle).

However, when looking back for that picture now, I found the picture I was referring too. My memory served us well now, as it's proving that the cradle is used for Rif loading.

You can see the four supports with the horizontal bar in between and the attachments for the crane on both sides of the cradle.
Also note in this picture, that the ship in question is not Kirov/Ushakov but a unit with Kashtan. Velikiy or Nakhimov, however, she does have that hatch behind the breakwater, yet no Silex launcher. I doubt that hatch was used for Silex, apart from this point, I couldn't see any way of reloading the Silex launcher from this hatch either. If it is possible to reload it, then I think the reloads are located forward, below the raised forecastle. I haven't checked this particular configuration out though. I'll have a look at some Silex pictures which you posted in CASF topic, maybe I can get a clue from those.

[carr]

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[gywain]

Hello Carr,I am your sincere fan, i've noted your work for a long time but since i am a model lover from China who is poor in English, so i could only pay close attention to your post silently. Almost everyday i open computer to enjoy your work.Your work is a big project, but nowadays,i could not see your work any more, so i am really sad about it, so could you send your work to my e-mail? MY e-mail address is gywain1314@163.com. Thank you
very much.

[Timmy C]

Gywain,

Carr ????????????. ????????Quote?????????????.



<English version>
Gywain,

Carr is wanting to know which photos you can't see. I believe you can use the Quote function to let him know the photos you need.

[Neptune]

you're welcome Bob, now get back to work and make some progress on that excellent build of yours!

[carr]

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[gywain]

Hello Carr,I am your sincere fan, i've noted your work for a long time but since i am a model lover from China who is poor in English, so i could only pay close attention to your post silently. Almost everyday i open computer to enjoy your work.Your work is a big project, but nowadays,i could not see your work any more, so i am really sad about it, so could you send your work to my e-mail? MY e-mail address is gywain1314@163.com. Thank you
very much.

Gywain,

I'm glad you enjoy the project. I can't send all the text and photos but I will try to send you occasional pictures of the more significant progress. No promises, but I will try.

Thanks,
Bob

Thank u so much, Carr

[gywain]

Hello, Bob.
I've read 10 pages of ur fabrication pictures here, but failed to read the rest. Do u know why and can u solve the problem? Or could u send the rest to me(gywain1314@163.com) ? Thank u so much!

[carr]

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