Calling all Soviet Kirov-class (Орлан) Project 1144 & Slava-class (Атлант) Project 1164 fans

[Ticonderoga]

Thanks Pepe,

I had seen most of these pics before, but not all of the dry dock pics. Two of them in particular help me a lot.

[Timmy C]

Here is a drydock shot from the front (doesn't answer your questions, but might be helpful):
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... XHevGXJOMA

It's from the Airbase.ru forum - let me know if you can't view it and I'll reupload it.

[DrPR]

In the Moskva bow view drydock shot you can see what appear to be two stabilizing fins protruding through gaps in the bilge keel on either side. These aren't visible in the Moskva stern view drydock shots (the gaps in the bilge keel are visible).

Are these things retractable into the ship (they are pretty long, and would take up a lot of interior space) or have they been removed in the stern shots?

Has anyone seen a closeup of the emblem on the stern and on the bridge wings?

[Timmy C]

I think they are removable - there are some shots of Peter the Great with holes in the hull where the stabilisers attach. Different classes, but should still be applicable.

[Ticonderoga]

Not a great pic, but definately two "large" stabilizer fins

[Ticonderoga]

Here is a drydock shot from the front (doesn't answer your questions, but might be helpful):
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... XHevGXJOMA

It's from the Airbase.ru forum - let me know if you can't view it and I'll reupload it.

Thanks Timmy, nice pic. Interesting that there is no bilge keel forward of the forward stabilser fin. The trumpeter kit I have for reference shows a bilge keel infront of the stabiliser

[DrPR]

Tico,

Definitely removable - the stabilizers won't fit into the openings in the hull. Do you know the ship in the photo (stabilizer fins)?

[Sauragnmon]

Look a little closer - there's a hinge in that stabilizer, interestingly enough. The hinge is what causes the bend in the stabilizer fin. Cancel out that, and it would be able to retract into that socket, which would additionally explain why the socket is so big to begin with.

[DrPR]

True. It is a high resolution photo and there is a lot of detail visible. At first I thought the hinged section might fold back on top of the main part, but looking at the outboard end of the hinge joint it doesn't look as if it was designed to do this.

One reason for the large opening is the operating mechanism for this "trim tab" on the stabilizer. The stabilizer rotates on a large shaft forward of the stabilizer centerline. The mechanism that operates the trim tab also has to rotate about the centerline of the shaft with the stabilizer. It might be possible to rotate the stabilizer clockwise and drop the trim tab to make it fit through the opening.

I am skeptical that is is retractable. The stabilizer must be rotated by a pretty large motor - probably hydraulic - and the trim tab also has some operating mechanism. This would all have to be retracted inside the ship along with the stabilizer, and the whole thing would have to be contained in a water tight cavity. All the hydraulic/electrical cabling would have to pass through the water tight container and accomodate the retraction/extension movement. None of this would be accessable for maintenance while at sea. There would have to be a separate mechanism to retract the stabilizer/motors/trim mechanism. Sounds like a real Rube Goldberg arrangement that would be a maintenance nightmare. There would be four of these things taking up room inside the engineering spaces of the ship.

If you think about it, none of this is really necessary, so why would they do it?

It would be nice to discuss this with someone familiar with the mechanism. Does anyone know of any ship with retractable stabilizers?

I would like to add that this discussion group has been excellent. So far I have found 367 good pictures of the Slava class through the forum, and the discussion of details has been very helpful. There is ample information to make a nice model.

[Ticonderoga]

Hi I haven't had time t0 go back through the photos to see if I can ID the ship, will check it out on the weekend and see what I can find out.

I served in a British Leander Class Frigate that had stabilisers. They certainly did not retract in to the hull. When the stabilisers were not engaged they were trimmed to a "bilge keel" position and simply acted as additions to the fixed bilge keel.

They were controlld by a fairly sophiticated inertial/accelerometer type system and the fins themselves were driven by fairly large hydraulic rams.

I imagine that the Slava was pretty much the same. The additional "tabs" were probabaly needed because the firecontrol system for the long range surface to surface missiles would need a very stable launch platform as I suspect the internal missile guidance was probably only inertial in the early days.

Andrew

[Neptune]

The Udaloys retracted their stabilisers so I'm fairly sure the Slava does too. I had a drawing of the mechanism somewhere, I'll have a look if I can find it. They retract them for higher speed during transits.

[Neptune]

Small as they are, I found them back.

Notice on one of the pics the stabiliser is divided in two parts, like on the picture shown above.

[carr]

..

[Neptune]

Hi Bob,

I'm quite sure Kirov's stabilizers were retractible. The drawing however is quite certainly an Udaloy and yes the structural impact is quite big, and I doubt the speed gain is that much...
I do think it also makes them more quiet if they rectract them.
I did find a nice picture for you. The propellors of the Kirov were apparently four bladed and not five bladed skewed like the ones on Velikiy.
Here is the picture.

They look a lot like the Krivak propellors.

[DrPR]

Neptune,

Thanks! I am always learning something new on the forum.

I can certainly see how the stabilizers would add to drag quite a bit. They extend far beyound the surface boundary layer at the hull. Retracting them must have helped reduce drag significantly or they wouldn't have expended all that internal space for the mechanism. Ships don't move very fast, and designers are always looking for ways to make them go faster. A one to two knot speed increase is a three to six percent improvement in a ship like this.

Retracting the stabilizers would also be useful for docking, allowing the ship to tie up closer to the pier without a barge between them.

[carr]

..

[Ticonderoga]

For those who might be interested, I have started my 1/72 Slva build thread on the forum

viewforum.php?f=13

[Peter H]

Hi guys
I have been building 1/350 WWII ships for the last few years and prior to that 1/35 armor, recently I took interest in more "modern" vessels after seeing pictures of a Slava class that was recently in San Francisco. So now I have the Trumpeter 1/350 Kirov and Varyag and the Dragon USS Preble to go with my Akagi, Mutsu, Graf Spee, Hipper, Prinz Eugen and Repulse with Scharnhorst arriving hopefully this week.

Decided on WEM Etch sets for the Kirov & Varyag and have made a start on the Kirov. Knowing just a bit more now I probably should have purchased Pyotr Velikiy but will live with a paint guide & decals that say "Frunze". The WEM instructions have "Top steer" (I believe) on the aft mast, but the kit has something different that I think should be on the Pyotr Velikiy from what I can find? And whats with the clear plastic superstructure? Thankfully I now know to paint the windows black.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to everyone here & especially Bob Carr who is helping me greatly with very useful information and pics of his work.

Best Regards

Peter Hoskins
Sydney, AU.

[NorthSea]

some foto em
http://www.cruiser-moskva.info/photos/
last four are of a slava on drydock
ciao peppe

Has anyone taken a really good look at those drydock photos of Moskva? I may be imagining this but its worth a spot of speculation...

It looks to me as if the weld lines round the seam on the stern tunnel are really clean, and is there a bit welded in just aft of the rudder that looks new as well? Perhaps this was an alteration to the original stern lines on the Slava class? Perhaps these pictures show the ship in drydock for the alteration? The scaffolding seems to be there to enable work on the stern. Perhaps part of the refit in 2000?

Any opinions?

[corpsman]

Hi ya!!!
Building 3 Trumpeter Kirvo. Started with Frunez. Removed the "squarish" box on the starboard side of the fantail - I don't see it in the picture I have of Fruntez.
I wish to cut out the plastic where the anchor is glued on. I have a picture in which I see what appears to be only the "flukes" sticking out thus leading me to believe that the stem of the anchor is actually inside the hull.
Looking for the Kirvo kit as she is totally different from her sisters.
Like to show you pictures of my Fleet but no luck getting them attached.
Gus
Semper Fi