Calling all Sims-class DD fans

[taskforce48]

taskforce48 wrote:
That's why I haven't started this yet, I know as soon as I am almost done they will announce they are releasing a kit of this class.


Let me know when you are finished.

Well if that isn't a dirty little tease, I don't know what is!

Tim, that is not even right!! I have contemplated the very same issue and watched to see if one the chosen few posted some cryptic clue. Now I have to figure out if I have created a false but still self-fullfilling prophecey or if there is indeed hope and you are just merely hinting at a nice surprise. Or you are just being mean!??

Ditto!

Hey ... if it would speed up the release of a SIMS class destroyer in plastic ... I'm more than willing to see Matt scratch-build one.

On the serious side, Matt, if you do work on a conversion, I would love to see how you do it ... I have images of the class if that would help you.

Alright, I might just have to take one for the team here. I will toss it on my ever growing pile of to do's. Let me clear the slip ways of my current project which is eating up my workbench and I will pull out the references and a kit and take a look at what I've got. Rick, I'll take any photo you care to post or send me. I love all the work you have posted over the years and have helped me build an impressive catalog of references.

Matt

[Rick E Davis]

Matt,

If you narrow down your choice of which SIMS class ship you want to model ... and time period/configuration ... I can post some images to see if they help. I have almost 200 images of the class from NARA ... many have been published before in reference books ... way too many to post here. There are actually quite a bit of variation of configurations for this class.

DD-418 ROE Building 7 July 1939 showing that unique stack


DD-413 MUSTIN on 14 June 1942


DD-411 ANDERSON on 4 June 1942 (Thanks Dick for Identifying her ... again. )


DD-418 ROE on 4 June 1942


DD-418 ROE on 16 April 1943


DD-417 MORRIS on 6 December 1943


An example of how different Yards did things differently during the same period. Look at the differences in how the two twin 40-mm mounts were installed on the aft deckhouse.

DD-418 ROE at New York Navy Yard on 15 April 1943 (This seemed to be the common configuration on the three Atlantic based units ... for ROE, WAINWRIGHT and BUCK)


DD-411 ANDERSON at Mare Island Navy Yard on 17 May 1943

[Dick J]

Rick, your "unknown" is Anderson.

Matt, in the top photo, notice the "inset" in the side of the superstructure. The object projecting upward in the back corner was an access hatch for one of the engineering spaces. There was a second, circular hatch (not yet installed in the photo) that was in the forward end of the inset, closer to the mouth of the opening. As built, there was a similar inset in the back of the structure, on centerline, with another oval access hatch. When the wing TT were removed and one set raised and moved to the after end of the structure, the support tube blocked the opening, so the new opening was offset to the port side of the support tube. The access hatch was still visible through the opening.

As for the stack, there were actually 6 uptakes, in pairs. The forward pair was divided by a small projection of the forecastle deck. The base of the mast was on that projection. Aft of the projection was a mushroom vent, immediately aft of which the uptakes merged together. There was a similar split aft, on either side of the support tube for the forward TT. The Benham's had a mushroom vent in the aft split, but the Sims class did not. (I have been researching for my own Livermore-to-Sims conversion in 1/700 - not yet started.)

[Rick E Davis]

Dick,

Thanks. I changed the label of that image to ANDERSON (DD-411) and moved that "UNKNOWN DD" to the SIMS class folder. I forgot to do that during the last discussion ... wherever it was.

[Devin]

Wow, I didn't know others had as much interest in the Sims class as I do. Glad to see I stirred up some discussion!

[MartinJQuinn]

Wow, I didn't know others had as much interest in the Sims class as I do. Glad to see I stirred up some discussion!

Such good discussion that I merged it into the Calling all Sims class fans thread...

[desron48]

Wow, I didn't know others had as much interest in the Sims class as I do. Glad to see I stirred up some discussion!

i'm building a sims class in 1/48th.....
joe

[desron48]

iv'e been searching hi and low for some good shots of the ....main blower intakes for both the sims and benham class.....most i see so far are from a distance...got any close ups????

joe

[Rick E Davis]

Joe,

You need to help me. Where exactly on these two classes are you looking for these? I don't know enough about either class to pinpoint them. There are vents all over the place.

[Dick J]

Rick is right. The larger vent intakes were located as follows"

Benham class:
1: Aft of mount 52
2: Forward of mast
3: "Box" shaped intakes - 1 on either side of after part of the stack
4: "Hooked" rectangular vent to port of 5-sided superstructure between stack and TT
5: Hooded intake on aft face of 5 sided structure listed above
6: Multiple vents atop the structure in center of the 4 TT mounts
...A: "Elbow" type intakes on Benham, Ellet, and Lang
...B: Hooded (attached to centrifugal fans) on remaining Benham class
7: Forward of mount 53

Sims class:
1: On either side of superstructure deck aft of mount 52 (as on the Benson's)
2: To starboard of the mast
3: Mushroom vent immediately aft of mast, at merge point for uptakes from forward boiler
4: 2 "boxes" each, either side of stack
5: 2 "hooked" rectangular vents, 1 ea forward and aft of the 2 port-side "boxes" listed above
6: Mushroom vent to port of superstructure for TT, half molded into side of structure
7: 2 mushroom vents between the TT sets
8: Small intakes in superstructure outboard of after TT (replaced a third mushroom vent removed when TT sets reduced from 3 to 2)
9: Forward of mount 53 (original mount 54) eventually below the raised searchlight/20MM platform

Quite a few vents, some for engineering spaces and some for crew space ventilation. Do you know which you need photos for?

[desron48]

thanks for the help.....
benham class..
forward of the mast....
and the boxed shaped vents on both sides of the stack

sims class....
2 boxes on eather side of the stack
it seams these vents are very hard to see on most photos...all other vents i can pick out..
again thanks for the help......joe

[Rick E Davis]

Joe,

I'll post the SIMS class images here and the BENHAM class images under the "1500 ton class USN destroyers" ... viewtopic.php?f=49&t=33935 ...

I hope these are what you were looking for. If there is another specific aspect and/or area, let me know and I'll see if I can find it.

DD-411 on 31 March 1939 before the TT mounts were rearranged.


DD-411 on 16 December 1943


DD-411 on 17 May 1943


DD-413 on 17 July 1943


DD-411 in March 1946

[desron48]

THANK YOU SIR.......that's just what i'm looking for....i love it when people make my day....

joe

[Rick E Davis]

Matt,

Here are some views of your subject ships:

DD-410 HUGHES on 16 December 1941 (I think all three ... HUGHES, WALKE and MORRIS ... are similar for the first ~six months of 1942, except that MORRIS had a different arrangement on the aft deckhouse)




DD-417 MORRIS on 5 January 1942



DD-410 HUGHES on 29 July 1942 (DD-416 WALKE has similar MINY photos on 28 August 1942. I don't have any photos of MORRIS in this configuration.)

[Rick E Davis]

Matt,

Here are closer up images of specific areas you asked about. I have just about exhausted all the images I have for this configuration.

Look at the images I posted earlier in this thread with overhead and stack views for more details in the bridge-stack area.

DD-416 WALKE on 24 August 1942 looking forward at the aft deckhouse ... the only image I have from this aspect ... the aft con station can not be seen very well.


DD-410 HUGHES on 29 July 1942 looking in a closer cropped view of the aft deckhouse look aft. I feel that this view shows the general arrangement, the con station layout likely would look similar to a BENSON-GLEAVES unit.


DD-410 HUGHES on 29 July 1942 looking in a closer cropped view aft of the bridge.


DD-411 ANDERSON on 17 May 1943, after she got two twin 40-mm mounts, but the mast area looks pretty much the same.

[les]

Rick,

You're filling up my computer with Destroyer images............and I love it!

[Michael E.]

Rick:

Thanks so much for the data dump. These photos are incredible!

A question: does anyone know what the fixture located on the aft deckhouse of both Hughes and Walke -- between the aft 20mm station and the forwardmost 5" gun -- might be, and what it might look like from various perspectives? In the above photos, it is obscured due to the camera angle, and the fact that on the port side it is surrounded by a pile of small wooden crates.

Is this one of the blower intakes/vents described above, or does it serve some other purpose?

Are there similar fixtures like this on any other Sims class ship or any other contemporaneous class of destroyer (Benson, Gleaves, etc.) that might provide some additional insight into its overall appearance from different angles?

The Niko 1/700 scale model of the USS Hughes portrays this part of the ship inaccurately, and I would like to correct this point, but I cannot due so without adequate documentation. Any help on this point would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Mike E.

[Dick J]

Between the aftermost 20MM and the #3 5" mount are two objects. First is a secondary conning station (with the forward bulwark) aft of which is a ventilation intake. This intake was beneath the platform for the raised after 20MM after the twin 40MM were installed. (Another intake can bee seen on the next photo down, to starboard of the mast.) This type of vent is also seen on the Benham class DD's - and in about the same location forward of mount 53.

[Michael E.]

Dick:

That's very helpful. Thanks for your insights!

Mike E.

[taskforce48]

Thanks Rick! I just now discovered that you responded, didn't get an e-mail on this. Thanks again for looking, I think the images you sent should be be sufficient, but if you come across anymore they of course will be welcome.

Thanks Again!

Matt