At 'Em Arizona Fans!

[BFR4570]

dsk and alx, very well said. I did receive the picture and it is amazing the difference in it. The most amazing part to me is the blue streaks (with a hint of green) it brought out near the waterline of the North facing bulkheads and Mainmast stub. They are right in the middle of the corrosion that extends up the sides of the objects, between the heavy scale at the waterline, but below the rust above it. Very odd. And why are they blue when alx was only adding yellow tint? Chemical reaction from the paint, with the seawater? Algea? Maybe someone who is familiar with corrosion action will pipe in. All in all, very interesting. But it asks as many questions as it might answer. I, for one, will await more pictures being released to see if there will be some consensus between whatever pics are finally released. If we get 14 pics showing 14 different colors, then we may be back where we started. But if they generally agree on a basic color, even in several different shades, then we MAY have our smoking gun. Meanwhile, I have thoroughly enjoyed alx's explanation as to the differences between color as we normally think of it, and how it is represented in a photograph. Thank you alx!

[Steve Sobieralski]

There was fire in this area; there are reports of crew from Turret #3 evacuating via the hatch in the rear of the turret on to the deck and being burned by fires there. Obviously, not as much fire as areas forward, but probably enough for a little bit of sooting action, depending on wind. Additionally, once she had sunk enough, this area would have had oily water that might have been on fire swirling around.

I have read that there was enough fire and heat in this area to deform the catapult atop Turret 3.

[alx]

So, anyone want to help fund my next trip to the Archives?

I'm going to disagree somewhat though, there are others out there who know my quest and who are keeping their eyes open as they research. I'm thankfully not the only one..... just the most willing to open my mouth and draw attention and flaming.

That's why I said "someone LIKE Tracy White".

You're a role model.

[Tracy White]

You're a role model.

To quote one of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books "He's just this guy..."

I can confirm the catapult was deformed... I've got a report from May of 1942 concerning items salvaged from Arizona and their status; the turret catapult entry is:

Catapult, Mk. 4, Mod. 1, Type P, has been put in a state of preservation and stored at Waipio Point. The forward end of this catapult, for approximately 12 feet, was subjected to intense heat causing the structure to droop, and some of the bottom plates to buckle. There is other structural damage to this catapult. It is believed that this catapult can be made serviceable with the necessary structural repairs, and overhaul of all working parts. Some replacement parts would be required, such as "Insurok" car slippers, launching cable, etc. Launching car and catapult gun and breech mechanism are in good condition.

[dsk]

BTW whatever happened to the forward fighting top? Is it among the items dumped at Waipio Point or was it cut up for scrap? It's simply amazing the things the navy never bothered to save for future historical reference.

[Tracy White]

Most likely scrapped; the Waipio wreckage was dumped there after the war; the war time metal would have probably have been recycled for war materials.

[Jennings]

Sadly, Loren Perry said he probably won't do a dedicated set for this kit



Also, my kit is still in transit, so I haven't laid eyes on it yet. Any of you guys who actually have it have any further insights into the upside down anchor and paravane hawse pipes? Is there a simple way to turn them around? I'm wondering if just scribing around the edge of the raised area on the outside of the hull until you go through (maybe thin down from the inside first?), then just rotate and re-glue. I'm sort of thinking out loud. Either way, that's gonna be a PITA if you display your model on a base with the anchor down as I plan to.

[BFR4570]

Or with the anchor up, either. The anchor won't fit through the hole as molded. Unfortunately, the hole seems to have been molded in line with the outer part, so the hole actually lines up with the Hawserpipe on the opposite side, NOT with the deck. I don't know if it will work, but I plan to cut mine out with a Jeweler's saw, hole and all, and turn it to the proper orientation. I hope that will align it closer to the Deck hole. The deck holes may be off a smidge also. They don't appear to have as much angle away from the centerline as in pictures of the bow of the Arizona. But if I can turn around the Hawsepipes, and they can align with the Deck holes, I won't care how off they are. A 2/0 Jeweler's blade is smaller than a #80 drill bit, to my eye. I haven't measured one yet. So it won't remove much material around the Hawsepipe. I plan to angle in from the outside of the Hawsepipe frame to just outside the hole on the inside of the hull. If I can be careful enough, it should leave the hull with an angled hole and I can just turn the Hawsepipe 180 degrees and drop it back in. I hope! As for the Paravane Hawsepipes, right now, I don't have a clue because they are right near the top edge of the hull and cutting them out may maess up the fit of the bow section of the deck. So I am thinking I may need to fill and re-drill them. What do the rest of you folks think?

[Tracy White]

The lip and the hole in the hull for the hawse pipes were set up around the molding.... they're perpendicular to the side of the ship. BFR isn't *quite* correct when he says they just need to be rotated, but he's close. Hawse pipes were not straight; they were curved so that the wearing of the chains was more even. So any modeler is going to be hard pressed to pack & redrill the actual way the hawse pipes traveled, unless you have a curved drill bit.

I haven't looked at it in any detail, but I've had similar models and was able to carve away the top of the hole somewhat on the hull so that it matched the opening above better. This works OK when you have an anchor stock present to hide things, but for Arizona, where she had four holes and I think only two anchors present on December 7th, what do you do for the wide open hawe pipes?

One thing I might try is packing as you suggest, with something like Apoxie Sculpt or Milliput, then drilling when it's still curing, and further boring and shaping with a wet Q-tip before it sets. A wet Q-tip should be a workable tool given the size of the pipes. This is a technique I haven't tried before though, and it may very well be a disaster, so take that with a grain of salt and experiment with one of the holes that will have an anchor in it in case you need to cover something up!

[Jennings]

Ugh... curved hawse pipes. My lack of knowledge here may be to my benefit But you may also be right about waiting until it's partially cured. I'll have to have another look at the situation later. I'm off to see Harry Potter this evening.

[Tracy White]

Jon asked me to post these:

[Jon C Ryckert]

Thanks Tracy for posting those for me. What I have done is not perfect by any means but hopefully I'll be able to get somewhat close to how it should be done. I spent a couple of evenings sanding away on both sides of the bow to get a more 'hour glass' shape to it but I'm running out of plastic just in front of the hawse pipes so I'll stop where I'm at. Unless I want to fill the inside hull cavity with epoxy resin or putty etc... and keep sanding , I just can't get the shape right with what the kit gives us. Anyways, there is still alot to do regarding the hawse pipes, two of them need to be reworked so they are more narrow to match pics and plans. Gotta go, Jon

p.s. Thanks again Tracy

[Gunther]

While probably not a "perfect" fit, I'm willing to bet that some of the 1/192 sets I have will fit fine on this kit. Tom's Modelworks has USN doors, inclined and vertical ladders, 2 and 3 bar rails,12" and 16" portholes, heck I've even got a complete Arizona set with cranes, catapults and lots of external braces! One of my customers who bought the complete set says the turret catapult fits just as well as the plastic one.

Thanks for the suggestion! I'm going to give Tom's 1:192 VERTICAL & INCLINED LADDERS set a go and see how they work. At $15 a set, you can't really go wrong......

[dsk]

The lip and the hole in the hull for the hawse pipes were set up around the molding.... they're perpendicular to the side of the ship. BFR isn't *quite* correct when he says they just need to be rotated, but he's close. Hawse pipes were not straight; they were curved so that the wearing of the chains was more even. So any modeler is going to be hard pressed to pack & redrill the actual way the hawse pipes traveled, unless you have a curved drill bit.

How about drilling a smaller hole and opening it up with a round needle file, adding the curve by hand?

[Charlestonguy]

BTW whatever happened to the forward fighting top? Is it among the items dumped at Waipio Point or was it cut up for scrap? It's simply amazing the things the navy never bothered to save for future historical reference.

Historical preservation is not high on the Gov. list of things to do. Take for example the Apollo 1 launch complex or the launch complex of John Glenn at Cape Canaveral Fl. All that remains is empty concrete pads. Arizona scrap was most likely used for many other projects and could have been part of the steel for other ships possibly even the Missouri, just as the World Trade Center steel is now in the USS New York.

[alx]

BTW whatever happened to the forward fighting top? Is it among the items dumped at Waipio Point or was it cut up for scrap? It's simply amazing the things the navy never bothered to save for future historical reference.

Historical preservation is not high on the Gov. list of things to do. Take for example the Apollo 1 launch complex or the launch complex of John Glenn at Cape Canaveral Fl. All that remains is empty concrete pads. Arizona scrap was most likely used for many other projects and could have been part of the steel for other ships possibly even the Missouri, just as the World Trade Center steel is now in the USS New York.

A little Googling turned up this "Metallurgical and Corrosion Evaluation of the U.S.S. Arizona" that was performed in the Summer of 2009. http://snr.unl.edu/gpcesu/PDFs/USS%20Arizona.pdf

It would seem that some pieces of the Arizona still remain lying around at Waipio Point.

Also see this article from 2008. http://www.tommcmahon.net/2008/11/the-s ... nsula.html

And the Wall Street Journal in 2007. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119672450795312374.html

[dsk]

Thanks for the links, they're a good read. I've been Googling about the Arizona for weeks now, and still manage to miss the good stuff.

[Jennings]

I've been looking through the instructions and I'm stumped. Is it me, or are there no range clocks on either the foremast or the mainmast? Kind of an obvious thing to leave out, no?

J

[JCRAY]

I believe the range clocks had been removed prior to the attack.

[Jennings]

I believe the range clocks had been removed prior to the attack.

Really?? Hmm... no wonder then. If I do decals, I'll definitely include them.