1/144 Kiev by Dave Wooley

[bannon]

Just been getting up to date on the Kiev build - nice to see how others do things. While going back through the pages noticed a picture of my Hermes in amongst the discussion on fully removable decks or partialy removable.

Apart from centre line lifts (elevaters) carriers don't have removable parts to the flight deck, and with the best of cuts you will always see the join - this is the main reason for my opting for fully removable decks - apart from excellant access. Sods law dictates that the part that goes wrong will be under the part you have fixed down! On my Truman the whole boat is in two halves and even making the flight deck join a 45 degree cut you can see the join. This was a deliberate decision at the start of the build due to transportation problems and I have to live with it.

Another thing with carrier flight decks is that everything is at the edges ie, the Catwalks - most of which are fragile. I fix my catwalks to the hull resulting in most of the fragile parts being left behind when you remove the deck which is held down with magnets.

For those worried about water ingress - both models have proved to be dry after each sail - if I run Hermes to fast a little water come up the Hawse pipes - but not via the deck/hull joint

In the end its personal preferance but hope this helps a little.

Paul Bannon

[Dave Wooley]

superb A. Carrier -
Hey Dave thinking about a new model?

Hi Norberto . Oh Yes but much preparation work behind the scenes so to speak . I would like , a smooth transition from one model to the next but we shall see?. Hope to unveil the new project soon.
Dave Wooley

[Dave Wooley]

Hi Dave

Words just seem able to do justice to the build!

Am about to PM you

Cheers

Steve

Hi Steve got your PM and thanks for your all your support on this project it is very much appreciated. I doubt very much this project could have progressed to where it is with out your assistance.
Dave Wooley

[Dave Wooley]

Just been getting up to date on the Kiev build - nice to see how others do things. While going back through the pages noticed a picture of my Hermes in amongst the discussion on fully removable decks or partialy removable.

Apart from centre line lifts (elevaters) carriers don't have removable parts to the flight deck, and with the best of cuts you will always see the join - this is the main reason for my opting for fully removable decks - apart from excellant access. Sods law dictates that the part that goes wrong will be under the part you have fixed down! On my Truman the whole boat is in two halves and even making the flight deck join a 45 degree cut you can see the join. This was a deliberate decision at the start of the build due to transportation problems and I have to live with it.

Another thing with carrier flight decks is that everything is at the edges ie, the Catwalks - most of which are fragile. I fix my catwalks to the hull resulting in most of the fragile parts being left behind when you remove the deck which is held down with magnets.

For those worried about water ingress - both models have proved to be dry after each sail - if I run Hermes to fast a little water come up the Hawse pipes - but not via the deck/hull joint

In the end its personal preferance but hope this helps a little.

Paul Bannon

Hi Paul you are right it is all down to personal preference re-the deck. Whilst I endorse the premise that a fully removable deck does provide unlimited access and makes installation and maintenance less problematic. . Where as a fixed deck with only sections removable has a distinct disadvantages for access . Yet I feel more comfortable with the latter. There is the other problem that may arise when having a completely removable deck which is in loosing some of its original seating integrity over a period of time due to distortion. Which ever method is adopted there are bound to be pluses and minuses for both ways of solving the same problem. Have you progressed any further on your Kuznetzov ?
Dave Wooley

[travelling_man]

Hi Dave

Words just seem able to do justice to the build!

Am about to PM you

Cheers

Steve

Hi Steve got your PM and thanks for your all your support on this project it is very much appreciated. I doubt very much this project could have progressed to where it is with out your assistance.
Dave Wooley

LOL! I am sure that that is NOT the case, but thanks anyhow! Looking forward to seeing it "in the flesh"

[boatman]

HI Dave WELL your model looks spot on to me what with the aircraft now on an figs IS there any chance of an overall pic of her with said items on board to see. Just wish i could get up to this point on my nimitz but im still fittin the eletronics an tryin to get it all to work but my main prob is this decoder everything works ok untill the R/X swiched off then failsafe comes in an it wont work systems for shows i must have altered the said system's 4 times now but hopefully im on the right track now SO IT WILL SAIL UNDER R/C an it can have lights an radars workin for shows as i think this is where the model will spend most time in
chris

[Dave Wooley]

HI Dave WELL your model looks spot on to me what with the aircraft now on an figs IS there any chance of an overall pic of her with said items on board to see. Just wish i could get up to this point on my nimitz but im still fittin the eletronics an tryin to get it all to work but my main prob is this decoder everything works ok untill the R/X swiched off then failsafe comes in an it wont work systems for shows i must have altered the said system's 4 times now but hopefully im on the right track now SO IT WILL SAIL UNDER R/C an it can have lights an radars workin for shows as i think this is where the model will spend most time in
chris

Hi Chris good to hear from you .More small bits to complete befor I can say "that's It" but it wont be to long , then I'll post up those overall pictures , I've ordered the display case {I prefer to call it a see through dust cover} at Telford. "How Big" the man said oh about that big I said eventually he said OK I can do it.
Dave Wooley

[Ticonderoga]

hi Dave,

Can you provide a "few" tips on assessing/implementing scale? I see all the great work youand others do and I am amazed how the scale gets "matched" without the benefit of drawings etc.

Sorry to be so cheeky

Andrew

[Ticonderoga]

The island superstructure on the Kiev�s is complex
And has many angles. But before commencing with
The build a number of basic problems needed to be
Given some thought.
1 Type of material that would give a strong and light
assembly but could be easily worked as there are
many opening to be cut. For this styrene was the material
Of choice. As a ridged framework was being used styrene
Of 1mm thickness could be used.
2 Also a method had to be thought through as to how
Glazing would be carried out once the structure is assembled.
Sides and each bridge for and aft
The base and internal supports were cut to shape.
On the full size ship the lower part of the superstructure
From the deck up to a height of about 5m is at 90degrees
Then the sides slop in at about 5 degrees

The basic framework is assembled taking into account the various thicknesses of the sides and that two removable bridge
works need to be accommodated.

Dave Wooley

Hi Dave,

Sorry to take you so far back, but I have a quick question. The thickness of the superstructure skin is 1mm, but what was the size of the bracing strips that you used?

Thanks for the help

Andrew

[Dave Wooley]

Hi Andrew The thickness of the internal styrene frame work as depicted in the photo is 1.5mm. As for your question of how to assess scale when having no specific drawing and making up parts from scratch? I have been giving this some thought or to put it another way how to explain this . I have a method which can to be explained when building a specific part, a bit like the chicken and the egg because all you see when I commence construction of a item like the tow truck is the material , then all the parts ready made ! I guess you would like to know what sort of formula I apply in that period between having the material and then the ready made parts? . I'll endeavor to explain using recently made fire fighting cabinets and the RAS hoists as examples { not yet shown here }. I did touch on this when making the ships aviation emblem on the bow but there is slightly more to it.
Perhaps others on the board may find this side of working in scale of some benefit . Also it�s a good general point of discussion , particularly for others to show how they also achieve the scale required in the absence of any specific drawing? The more complex example is the Foam Truck on Kiev which has around 60 individual parts . But the method applied is not dependent on numbers you could in theory have 6000 parts. In some respects it�s similar to pattern making but here the parts are the model not parts for reproducing the model . ARH is a past master at this and he also explains this in his builds at the top of the board.
Dave Wooley

[bannon]

Dave

Flight Decks - you are perfectly correct regards distortion. I found this a major problem on the Truman. The first deck was made of Ply and at one time the expansion reached 10mm and the deck would simply not fit. I ended up using 'plastic' and have used the same on the Hermes. It's the type used by professional sign makers and has the advantage of being almost totally inert - result, almost no expansion and a deck that can be almost 'rolled' into place.

The Kuznetsov still lives and I will start work on her again when the Hermes is finished - still have the Hermes Air Wing to do.

Interesting subject - scale from pictures. I work on a percentage principle ( very simplistic and probably not accurate) You have the photo of the boat, the length of which you know. Measure the item - on the photo - you need to know the size of, measure ship length on photo and work out length of item as a percentage. Then apply that percentage to actuall length - then scale. The other rule I use is 'if it looks right, it probably is' This is why I like 1:144 if you want to make things work (like wip ariels ) then you need to go somewhat oversize to get some strength in the operating mechanisim - but it 'looks OK

Paul Bannon

PS Would it be in order to call you regarding a matter totally unrelated at this point in time, to the Forum - I have your card with number.

[Ticonderoga]

Thanks Dave,

You have made a fantastic "offer", bit cheeky of me I know.... Let's hope others show their interest and we have enough takers to make the discussion worth your while

In the mean time I will certainly go back through ARH's builds.

One can never read these great lessons often enough......

Many thanks

Andrew

[Ticonderoga]

Interesting subject - scale from pictures. I work on a percentage principle ( very simplistic and probably not accurate) You have the photo of the boat, the length of which you know. Measure the item - on the photo - you need to know the size of, measure ship length on photo and work out length of item as a percentage. Then apply that percentage to actuall length - then scale. The other rule I use is 'if it looks right, it probably is' This is why I like 1:144 if you want to make things work (like wip ariels ) then you need to go somewhat oversize to get some strength in the operating mechanisim - but it 'looks OK

Paul Bannon

Thanks Paul, some good tips there.

Andrew

[Dave Wooley]

Dave

Flight Decks - you are perfectly correct regards distortion. I found this a major problem on the Truman. The first deck was made of Ply and at one time the expansion reached 10mm and the deck would simply not fit. I ended up using 'plastic' and have used the same on the Hermes. It's the type used by professional sign makers and has the advantage of being almost totally inert - result, almost no expansion and a deck that can be almost 'rolled' into place.

The Kuznetsov still lives and I will start work on her again when the Hermes is finished - still have the Hermes Air Wing to do.

Interesting subject - scale from pictures. I work on a percentage principle ( very simplistic and probably not accurate) You have the photo of the boat, the length of which you know. Measure the item - on the photo - you need to know the size of, measure ship length on photo and work out length of item as a percentage. Then apply that percentage to actuall length - then scale. The other rule I use is 'if it looks right, it probably is' This is why I like 1:144 if you want to make things work (like wip ariels ) then you need to go somewhat oversize to get some strength in the operating mechanisim - but it 'looks OK

Paul Bannon

PS Would it be in order to call you regarding a matter totally unrelated at this point in time, to the Forum - I have your card with number.

Hi Paul Yes no problem
Dave Wooley

[Dave Wooley]

Moving on to a resent addition , the numbering of each of the Bazalt {SS-N-12}
launch tubes. In preference to a decal I decided to try BECC peel off vinyl
letters and numbers . For larger models they seem better suited than the
decal especially for the depth markings.



I thought once again some more experimentation with figures but this time
attention shifted to the Bazalt launch tubes . I imagined that the forward
crane has lifted the last missile onto the cradle and the loading crew are
making preparation to load the last tube . Whether they did load in some
specific order I really don�t know . It has been mentioned before that all
loading is done in port but the cradle has been seen aboard Gorshkov whilst that ship was at sea.



Dave Wooley more to come.

[Capit�o Norbert]

Dave your model have a surpreendent look.
is fascinating the paint work as well the model in general.
is great the color and the fabricating of pieces on deck you made
no words - superb

[DrPR]

Dave,

Looking at photos of your model has convinced me that I will need a crew for my ship. It is really looking nice!

I saw the queston about figuring out the size of objects when you don't have drawings. I posted my method for "photoguestimation" here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=63791

Also, I worry that rub-on or stick-on lettering will not last very long. I also posted a techniques in Tips and Tricks for using rub-ons as stencils.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=62943

First paint the letter color (black, for example) and let it dry. Then position the rub-on/stick-on letters. Next spray the surrounding color (gray, for example) over the letters. After the paint dries use masking tape to lift off the rub-on/stick-on letters. You have black letters on a gray background.

The resulting letters are permanent, and they have no apparent thickness (unlike decals and stick-ons). I have done this many times and the results are, in my opinion, much better than stick-ons. Also, you can get any color for the letters this way - you aren't limited to what the stick-on manufacturer makes.

[Dave Wooley]

Dave,

Looking at photos of your model has convinced me that I will need a crew for my ship. It is really looking nice!

I saw the queston about figuring out the size of objects when you don't have drawings. I posted my method for "photoguestimation" here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=63791

Also, I worry that rub-on or stick-on lettering will not last very long. I also posted a techniques in Tips and Tricks for using rub-ons as stencils.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=62943

First paint the letter color (black, for example) and let it dry. Then position the rub-on/stick-on letters. Next spray the surrounding color (gray, for example) over the letters. After the paint dries use masking tape to lift off the rub-on/stick-on letters. You have black letters on a gray background.

The resulting letters are permanent, and they have no apparent thickness (unlike decals and stick-ons). I have done this many times and the results are, in my opinion, much better than stick-ons. Also, you can get any color for the letters this way - you aren't limited to what the stick-on manufacturer makes.

Hi DrPR Thank you for your comments . Yes the method you have explained sounds interesting, I must give it a try . I have used rub on lettering but in much the same way as a decal. The rational for using peel off , especially for draught markings, is that such markings are often raised slightly clear of the surface .
Dave Wooley

[Dave Wooley]

Dave your model have a surpreendent look.
is fascinating the paint work as well the model in general.
is great the color and the fabricating of pieces on deck you made
no words - superb

Hi Norbert Thanks for your very kind comments . My intention was to get the crane rigged so I could do a little more experimenting with having the Bazalt missile being lowered onto the cradle, as you can see in the pictures the sling harness remains attached to the missile body . But rigging the two cranes are but two jobs on my list of jobs that need to be done. BUT that list is getting shorter by the week . The model has to be completed now by February at the very latest .
Dave Wooley

[Ticonderoga]

I thought once again some more experimentation with figures but this time
attention shifted to the Bazalt launch tubes . I imagined that the forward
crane has lifted the last missile onto the cradle and the loading crew are
making preparation to load the last tube . Whether they did load in some
specific order I really don�t know . It has been mentioned before that all
loading is done in port but the cradle has been seen aboard Gorshkov whilst that ship was at sea.
Dave Wooley more to come.

Dave, once again, the quality, the craftsmanship, what can I say? Nothing other than I really look forward to seeing the picturesd and reading your advice.

Re the transfering of missiles at sea, during my operational time in the RAN and RN the Soviet Navy was always assessed as having the capacity and capability to transfer missiles at sea. I do remember seeing footage of this but I am not allowed to "remember" where I saw it.
It is interesting to note that the Kirov cruisers have a specific high point on the focsle and an opening in the "side guard rail/bulkhead" to accept their missiles at just above deck height from the supplying ship.