Calling all Independence-class (CVL-22) fans

[whaynes]

Thanks, Tracy. Knew I could depend on you. Walt

[davidwaples]

Hi Tracy,
I'm considering getting the Dragon 1:350 Independence and building her as the CVL-30 San Jacinto. Can you recommend a good book reference for this ship class?
Dave

[Tracy White]

To be honest, not really. I bought a bunch and never really found any really good books that explained the differences between ships.... I had to go out and study them on my own.

What time frame are you looking at? Off the top of my head I'd say use the latest configuration offered by the CVL-22 kit and scratch-build the 20mm tubs on the forward catwalks and you're 90% there.

I'd like to create a section on my site that has sort of a tabulation of differences for each ship over time, but I've got other things I told people I'd do first that I need to get to.

[davidwaples]

Thanks Tracy,
If I build her it will be 1944 when President Bush was there. I know very little about these ships and the differences between them. You would think that at some point Dragon would release this ship as CVL-30 because of the historical significance, but you never know. My thought was to build President Bush's TBM in 1:48 scale which I currently have. It would make a nice display for our local museum.

Off the top of your head do you know any significant differences between CVL-22 and CVL-30?

Thanks again and Merry Christmas to you and everyone here.

Dave

[Tracy White]

Off the top of your head do you know any significant differences between CVL-22 and CVL-30?

Please re-read my post, I even used the same wording you did!

[Joe Dunla]

This may be a bit off topic, but I have a couple of questions about the Independence, CVL-22. I just purchased the new Dragon kit and have started researching the original. Id like to paint her in Measure 33, and have found the paint chart for doing so on Indy class CVL's but cannot find any evidence of the Independence herself having been painted so. Does anyone know if she ever carried those colors? Second, is anyone producing a PE set for the model? The set that comes in the kit is ok, but there seems to be a lot of room for improvement.
Thanks to any and all who might have answers to this.

Joe Dunlap

[Tracy White]

Look on her Navsource Page; there's two photos of her in dazzle just above the Operations Crossroads section. She was in pattern 8A, which you can see the design sheet for on the ShipCamouflage site.

You'll need to make some changes to her for that camouflage scheme though; she went into repair & refit before being painted in dazzle and had a second catapult added, some changes to the island made, etc.

[keithhufnagel]

Independence CVL-22 was painted 33-8a in June of 1944 at Hunters Point. Photos and captions in Floating Drydock's Camouflage II suggest the colors were 5-N, 5-L, and 5-0. This book has a couple of good photos of Indy and some great detail shots of CVL modifications. Hope this helps.

[Guest]

Thanks Tracy,

You are a bottomless pit of information, as always. Doing the research is sure easy with someone like yourself to call on.

Joe Dunlap

[joedunlap]

Thanks also To Keith for his input. I have a couple of more questions, guys. First, are there any existing or in the works PE sets for the new Dragon 1/350 Independence, and second, does anyone know the purpose of the watertight door to nowhere on about the 02 or 03 level of the bridge? Its molded as an opening in the part, but it seems to be much undersized compared to the standard doors. It is shown on the box art, but I havent been able to find a picture of it anywhere. Thoughts anyone?

Joe

[Tracy White]

1) WEM will be working on a set soon. I've sent some preliminary information to them and may send more if Peter wants any help.

2) That door to nowhere was for a catwalk around the island in that area only on the shakedown cruise. Dragon initially molded it integrally to the right side of the island and I asked them to make it a separate piece for those not doing the shake-down configuration. They removed it from the island and forgot to add it as a separate piece. Fill it if you're doing the post-shakedown cruises, if not, either wait for the WEM set, which should have it, or bug me to remind me to try and get dimensions and a sketch posted.

[SeanF]

2) That door to nowhere was for a catwalk around the island in that area only on the shakedown cruise. Dragon initially molded it integrally to the right side of the island and I asked them to make it a separate piece for those not doing the shake-down configuration. They removed it from the island and forgot to add it as a separate piece. Fill it if you're doing the post-shakedown cruises, if not, either wait for the WEM set, which should have it, or bug me to remind me to try and get dimensions and a sketch posted.

This reminds me of the one "complaint" I have about this kit. Dragon has provided alternate parts, full instructions, and early-style aircraft markings for the Independence's shake-down cruise. The painting and decaling instructions show the first war cruise Ms. 21 scheme and three war cruise deck marking schemes - but no shakedown cruise painting (Ms. 14) or deck marking info. Not that I intend to build mine in either scheme, as I find both to be mind-numbingly boring (I'll do a sister ship in dazzle. Probably Princeton, with those flashy Hellcats) - but after all the effort they put into including the as-completed fit, I find it a strange oversight.

- Sean F.

[Tracy White]

Well, two points on that. First, I would characterize that as my fault and not theirs in many regards. There's also a difference of opinion; Randy Short thinks she was in Measure 21 but I think Measure 14.

While we spent about two and a half years doing the kit itself, the instructions were rather rushed and I just missed the lack of Measure 14 in the review.

[SeanF]

Well, two points on that. First, I would characterize that as my fault and not theirs in many regards. There's also a difference of opinion; Randy Short thinks she was in Measure 21 but I think Measure 14.

While we spent about two and a half years doing the kit itself, the instructions were rather rushed and I just missed the lack of Measure 14 in the review.

Well, I think the instructions sure look nice for a rush job. Seriously, the loving attention given to those 5"/38s in both plastic and on the instruction page make me a little sad I'm not planning on using them. (I'll save 'em for something else. Hey, if I get another Indy, I'll have enough leftover 5"/38s to fit out an Essex!)

I'm totally with you on the Ms. 14 Tracy, particularly based on this shot:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/022209.jpg
Flight Deck Stain 21 nearly matches 5-O, and I don's see much difference in this shot between deck and structure there. (Though to be fair, I also don't notice any difference between the hull color and the forecastle color that should probably be deck blue.) Of all the ironies, as much as I hate Ms. 21, I think in this case it's a more colorful scheme than Ms. 14 - at least the deck would be a noticeably different color! A friend of mine built a CVE in Ms. 14 with Deck Stain 21, and the thing looked almost like unpainted plastic it was so monotonous!

- Sean F.

[Tracy White]

The actual full-blown instructions were sent to us on a Friday evening (our time) with a note "we want to print this Monday (Sunday our time)."

The instructions are not perfect, but given the fact we were given a day to proof read and make suggestions I think we did OK. We managed to get them to re-order things a bit to make it more builder friendly in term of build order. Still much progress needed, but in the end we got a good kit out.

[Hill]

Hello,
I am looking for a correct number and allocation of 20mm AA guns on late war Independence or Baatan. Can somebody help me please ?

[Tracy White]

CVL-22: very few. Best I can do right now is 1946. She had two forward on the port catwalk (Cut down from a three-gun tub) and one starboard in the same area, but a smaller tub. One port side amidships, pretty much on the opposite side of the ship from the #4 stack, with the forward edge of the tub lining up with the aft end of the stack. The 20mms under the flight deck were removed before the end of the war.

[keithhufnagel]

As for 20MMs for Independence class ships: they started with (10), but (6) more were soon approved in Aug. 1943. After that it is more exclusive and difficult to determine depending on the particular ship, refit dates, and availability of weapons. This would require a little more serious research. Late war ships were also equiped with twin 20s but in addition lost their fore and aft 20MM tubs due to weight saving measures. These light crusier hulled ships were extremely top heavy so stability was always a problem. Hope this helps and have fun Modeling!

[Hill]

In Osprey book there is a picture with big number 22 od deck, 2 cats, 9 twin boffors and 12 x 20mm single. IS possible that is Leyte configuration of the ship ?

[Tracy White]

Yes.