Calling all Borodino (Бородино) class (Tsushima 1905) fans

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maarten
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:08 am

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by maarten »

Hi Bondoman,
The BMK barrels are light years ahead of the plastic versions in their own right - good call on using them I'd say. Since I have both sets in hand, finding the most accurate made sense. Please be careful when replacing the 47mm barrels - with your model looking so good it would be a shame to damage it in any way! The Master Model set has those included too, it's going to be "interesting" putting those in place :smallsmile: (tiny little buggers)
Sprue or maybe wire ought to replicate them pretty good. I can measure the diameter and length for you if you want, to make fabricating replacements a little easier?
Just doing the preliminary steps myself just now - cutting, filing and drilling the plastic where PE or turned metal replacements go. Getting into the kit makes your work all the more impressive, lots of details to take care of!

Best regards,
Maarten
Bondoman
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:47 pm

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by Bondoman »

Please do Maarten. They are tapered, co the small end diameter is enough.
maarten
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:08 am

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by maarten »

Hi Bondoman,
As Master Model makes them, the 47mm barrels are 0.35mm in diameter at the muzzle (0.013 inches) and from base to muzzle have a length of 4.3mm (0.169 inches) If you do a search for Borodino at their site (http://master-model.pl) you can see that length is pretty much all in front of the gun shield.
Wire or maybe hypo needles ought to do fine in replicating something this tiny. Good luck!

Best regards,
Maarten
Bondoman
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:47 pm

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by Bondoman »

maarten wrote:Hi Bondoman,
As Master Model makes them, the 47mm barrels are 0.35mm in diameter at the muzzle (0.013 inches) and from base to muzzle have a length of 4.3mm (0.169 inches) If you do a search for Borodino at their site (http://master-model.pl) you can see that length is pretty much all in front of the gun shield.
Wire or maybe hypo needles ought to do fine in replicating something this tiny. Good luck!

Best regards,
Maarten
Thank you. Lesson learned is that the PE shield would not fit over the plastic barrels without shaving the one and forcing the other. And now I'm going to cut them off?! I did glue the guns down on a painted surface too, so if they pop off they're going to take some deck paint with them.
0.015 brass wire is easy to find though.
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ironclad
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:25 am

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by ironclad »

Hello All!
Bondoman! Something is not right with the height of marses.

Mars sides height from project drawings is 30" = 762mm. In 1:350 is near 2,2mm.
Human height 1650mm in 1:350 is near 4,7mm.
Borodino mars height.jpg
On Your model mars height seems like human size and ship becomes more French-like. :smallsmile:
Bondoman
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Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by Bondoman »

ironclad wrote:Hello All!
Bondoman! Something is not right with the height of marses.

Mars sides height from project drawings is 30" = 762mm. In 1:350 is near 2,2mm.
Human height 1650mm in 1:350 is near 4,7mm.
Borodino mars height.jpg
On Your model mars height seems like human size and ship becomes more French-like. :smallsmile:
I'm not familiar with the term marse, so thank you for that. I would call it a fighting top. I'll take the 2.2 mm and measure it against mine. I made mine from brass following the human height idea, certainly taller than the kit ones and they do look too tall. Also the one on the foremast looks too close to the bridge, but that can't be helped. Making them shorter is an easy task, so thank you very much for the input.

Are those maxim guns? They look serious!
EDIT: the mars or tops I built are exactly 5mm. Off they come and to be replaced by 2.2. Is that above the little deck, or height overall?
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ironclad
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Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by ironclad »

My mistake, Bondoman! :doh_1: Mars - Russian term. English - Top. Size of 30" is overall height of top.

Ships of that time had stationary mounts for landing guns, steam and torpedo boats armament. Simple reason - not to store these guns as cargo, but to use somehow as anti-torpedo guns, despite they were less effective, than ship guns. Same here - all Maxim guns are really a standard armament for steam and torpedo boats, in case of need they can be lowered and mounted on boats.
Still I am not sure, but seems, that on most photos We see two schemes of mounts. Possibly, because 2 guns may be lowered and used on patrol torpedoboats together with 37mm guns.
Attachments
Mounts of Maxim machineguns.jpg
Bondoman
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Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by Bondoman »

I'm working on the hull fittings now- the casement doors are in place and the torpedo net booms. Also the davits. After I install the net platforms there will not be much more to do except rig her.

Yeah the 12" barrels came today. They are in the paint shed, and I will get the turrets built and installed this week.

The light at the end of the journey is beckoning...

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DariusP
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Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by DariusP »

Looks good Bandoman! I just love the look of Borodinos :)
"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken
53ryder
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:28 am
Location: Brier, Washington

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by 53ryder »

Am reading "The Tsar's Last Armada: The Epic Voyage to the Battle of Tshushima" by Constantine Pleshakov, copyright 2002.

Was wondering how to pronounce Admiral Rozhestvensky's last name. Obviously I don't know the Russian language. "Roz-eh-vent-ski"? "Roz-hest-vent-ski"? Is the "z" silent? Is the "h" silent? Is the "t" silent? Or is everything pronounced, with nothing silent? Could someone type out his name phonetically so I can figure it out?

Thanks in advance!


Glenn
DariusP
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:08 pm

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by DariusP »

As far as I know everything is pronounced 53ryder. The best I can explain is like this: Roz (as in ROSe)-he (as in HExagon)-st (as in STreet)-ven (as in VENt)-ski (as in SKI)-y (as in Yeti). The last "y" is really a so called "short i" (?) and I don't think it has an equivalent in English. If I am wrong, hopefully, one of our Russian friends will correct me :)
Last edited by DariusP on Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken
Bondoman
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Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by Bondoman »

Oh, and they will, but remember, the way it's spelled in your book is a phonetic translation to begin with. His name was ??????? ???????? ????????????? (at least according to Wikipedia, "Ironclad")
That's a good book. It's been "called out" on any number of issues, but IMO it's a great overall story, very complete, and in particular I liked the description of all of the weeks spent in Indochina.
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ironclad
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Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by ironclad »

In international phonetic system: z-i-n-o'-v-i-j p-e-t-r-o'-v-i-ch r-o-3-e'-s-t-v-e-n-s-k-i-j, where 3="g" like in "badge" ( not the same, but close );
j - short i ( ? - short ? ) - if You say: yo-ho-ho, it will be "y" sound - very short i.
(For me it seems, Darius posted the same, but who knows ... :big_grin: )

In Russian his family name looks like Cristmasman - newcomers often adding "lost" letter. :smallsmile: And experienced people sometimes makes a mistake, too.

Some of customer reviews for "The Tsar's Last Armada: The Epic Voyage to the Battle of Tsushima by Constantine Pleshakov":
http://www.amazon.com/Tsars-Last-Armada ... ewpoints=0

"My main problems with the book is that the author does know what the various ships were. For example, the U.S.S. Raleigh and the U.S.S. Cincinnati are listed as a battleships (pg 388/390), where they were only protected cruisers (sort of a light cruiser to our present way of thinking. Another example is "Admiral Seniavin" is listed as a cruiser (pg 390) when it was a coast defense battleship. Etc, etc. Also there are many instances where ships (example "Shinano Maru") are listed as cruisers when they were actually only armed merchant cruisers (Merchant ships with a few guns are mounted)."
"I was very sorely disappointed. The overall impression is that the author is unfamiliar with naval matters and has indeed little feel for them. Though full of anecdotes, little attention is paid to overall context and the technological elements of the story ...", "All of the Russian ships the author has listed as torpedo boats were classified at the time as destroyers."
"On occasions unfamiliarity with the relevant terminology means that the reader is confused by what is even meant (e.g. is a "tower" a "turret"?)."
"He knows nothing about ships, naval strategy/tactics, etc. There is not one picture or drawing of the battleships involved, no specs, no tables, no maps of the battle itself. All we can learn about the newest Russian battleships is that they are "enormous." For any ship/naval history buff this book would be a huge disappointment."

"Without doubt, the best book on this subject is...Frank Thiess (english translation "The Voyage of the Forgotten Men(Tsushima) ... it's included in the bibliography, so we have to conclude that Pleshakov either hasn't read it, or he's shameless enough to make a buck with a shoddy book that doesn't offer anything new, same for some spicy anecdotes."
"...he seems to be engrossed in the sex lives of many of the players of this drama. Do I really need to know which of Nicholas's ministers was a closet homosexual? Is the fact that several grand dukes were illegitimate an important piece of this puzzle? Clearly there are some things that don't ned to be in this book."
"� The anecdotal approach indeed dominates the book and one has a strong impression of stories that have been passes from hand to hand, growing in the telling, and repeated here with little attempt to screen them on the grounds of veracity or likelihood ... One gets an uneasy feeling that myths and legends surround this battle for political and ideological reasons and that the full story has still not emerged. If this is the case then it is to the detriment of the memory of many brave men, officers and seamen alike."
Last edited by ironclad on Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
cerberusjf

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by cerberusjf »

....
Last edited by cerberusjf on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ironclad
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Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by ironclad »

cerberusjf wrote:I think the "zh" in Rozhestvenstky was pronounced like the "s" in "vision" or "corrosion"
Exactly! I cannot find this sound, when I need it.
Bondoman
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:47 pm

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by Bondoman »

What do you guys think about adding rolled up torpedo nets to the model? I have the platforms extended, and the booms fitted. Would it look decent? I understand that the battleships were trying to deploy them at the time the battle started.(?)
DariusP
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Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by DariusP »

By all means Bandoman! It certainly adds character to the model. Just don't overdo it. Folded torpedo nets on Borodinos weren't bulky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RUS_Orel_2.jpg

John - you are right, the closest equivalent to "?" in ????????????? ("zh" in English transliteration) would be "s" as in "vision".
"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken
53ryder
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Location: Brier, Washington

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by 53ryder »

Thanks for the info on pronouncing 'Rozhestventsky'. Never paid much attention to the Russo-Japanese War. Needless to say am having a great time reading about it now!

Glenn
Bondoman
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:47 pm

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by Bondoman »

Glad to have you aboard. I started with that book as well. Get used to the fact that there's a group of Tsarist Pre-Dreadnaught Battleship Model experts available here as a resource.

There might be a Hasegawa Mikasa in your future.
53ryder
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:28 am
Location: Brier, Washington

Re: Calling all Borodino class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Post by 53ryder »

Bondoman wrote:Glad to have you aboard. I started with that book as well. Get used to the fact that there's a group of Tsarist Pre-Dreadnaught Battleship Model experts available here as a resource.

There might be a Hasegawa Mikasa in your future.


I did manage to pick up Zvezda's 'Prince Suvorov' kit in 1/350th. Have been eyeing that Hasegawa kit now that you mention it. :thumbs_up_1:


Glenn
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