Calling all IJN Fuso (扶桑) and Yamashiro (山城) fans

[peppe]

from gakken #30 on fuso class
ciao peppe

[Dan K]

I'd forgotten about the Gakken volume. Well, one can now compare that to the material from the Ishibashi volume. The illustrations are too big to depict in their entirety but the gist is here. The Fuso version has one more 25mm single in front of #1 turret that was cut off.

[Atma]

Wow awesome diagrams, thanks peppe and Dan
Dan, I have some Japanese friends and I will ask them if they can translate the Ishibashi table. Thanks again guys ::)

[Dan K]

I would love to se those table translations listed here, if possible. Thx, Atma.

[Atma]

Trying to do a Yamashiro in 1943 is discombobulate, what you think Dan ?
Most of the 1941 double 25 mm have been removed by triple, first the one above number 2# turret in the overhang platform with the 3.5m rangefinders , second the pair of doubles on the platform at the aft part of the Pagoda have been replaced by triple and strangely, the two 25mm AA guns on top of number 2# turret is triple according to Ishibashi diagram.
According to Ishibashi table, Yamashiro had also by 1944 2 double 13mm AA guns, strange.Also according to Ishibashi table Fuso had her type 21 radar in 1944 while at AOTS:Fuso the type 21 was added at July 1943(page 134), while Yamashiro had no additions of extra AA light gus at all until 1944, so no change for her at 1943, but, is that correct ? Ishibashi table also inform us that Yamshiro never had type 21 radar wich is 1) typo error, or 2)tottal wrong statement cause Yamashiro's TROM state the addition of type 21 radar in 1943:
July 1943:
At Yokosuka. Refit. A Type 21 air and surface search radar and twenty-one 25 mm AA guns (17 single and 2 twin-mounts) are fitted making a total suite of thirty-seven 25-mm AA guns.

But this sounds quite suspicious as it sounds like Fuso's TROM, as it states the addition of single and 2 double 25mm AA, wich in first case, Ishibashi table is wrong for Yamashiro 1943 and type 21 radar or, Yamashiro's TROM in Nihon Kaigun site is a copy paste of Fuso's TROM.
Whats your opinion Dan ?

[Dan K]

I don't know what to think, Atma. The guys who work on the TROMS are pretty diligent about getting it right, and I know that Tony Tully has a hand on these two ships as well.

Yet, the Ishibashi book is considered top rate as well & I see that the Fukui diagram does not show radar either for 8-1944. Fukui's diagrams usually do inicate radar set-ups, even if they are focused on AA.

These ships are not my strongpoint so, I don't know what to make of the contra-indicating information.

[Atma]

On top of that all Yamashiro's 1944 models show the ship with type 21 radar.
With all this confusion about Yamashiro's 1943 and onwards AA fit and radar fit Im glad I choose to build my Aoshima's Yamashiro (and my Aoshima's Fuso) to a 1941 fit.As for my 1/350 Fujimi's Fuso I will stick to a 1944 version and I will follow the AOTS:Fuso and not add the 3,5 m rangefinders on the flying of platform above number 2# turret in spite Fujimi's instructions that they where still present by 1944.
Also again according to AOTS:Fuso, I will add triple 25mm AA on top number 5# turret.

Edit:by the way Dan, Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy #2; Fuso, Yamashiro, Ise and Hyuga and Fuso and Yamashiro: Gakken #30 show Yamashiro pagoda change from 1941 to 1944, and in 1944 shows a type 21 radar.

[Dan K]

In looking at the Ishibashi table, I see that Yamashiro received Type 13 and 22 radars by 1944. I suspect that her Type 21 air search radar was replaced by the Type 13 as sort of an experimental alternative. THis would explain her gaining a Type 21 earlier, then losing it.

[Atma]

Well the Ishibashi table suggest that she never carried the Type-21 radar. Type-21 radar is the most common radar in Japanese Navy, and I find it hard to belive she never carried one. So i guess its a typographical error in the Ishibashi table that Yamashiro never carried a Type-21 radar. I think in the Ishibashi table the truth about the absence of Type-21 radar in that table for Yamashiro lies somewhere in the comments, it needs to be translated.At the moment I insist, that the Ishibashi table is suffering from a typographical error about Yamashiro's Type-21 radar.
What you think Dan ?
By the way, the only case replacemt of Type-21 radar was in Tone, when the Type-21 was replaced by Type-22 on top of her forward mainmast during 1945.

Edit:Dan if you notice the Ishibashi diagram of Yamashiro during 1944 it lucks the air defense command deck that most of other sources claim that was added in Yamashiro in 1943.
Take a look at the link (the picture is from Gaken 30:Fuso-Yamashiro):http://img703.imageshack.us/i/yama943gakkenpagchan.jpg/

[Dan K]

FYI, I've picked up a Trojan worm from trying to link to that site, Atma. I'll look it up separately.

Could very well be a type on the Ishibashi page.

[Atma]

I cant load pic from my pc, Im a noob:s
Dan go to that link:http://www.steelnavy.com/HM%20Yamashiro.htm
Is from Steelnavy.com, a review of Hi-Mold Yamashiro, look down there is a picture from Gakken with Yamashiro's Pagoda change in 1941 anad 1944.

[Dan K]

I actually went thru the Gakken book and I note that it appears that the Yamashiro photos on pp 47-72 are all circa 1943......assuming I read the year notations correctly. No Type 21 radar in any of those photos even though the main rangefinder is clear. Of course, I could have the date wrong.

[Atma]

Aoshima is releasing IJN Fuso 1938 in waterline this April, also woodeck sheet and some basic photo etc for the Full Hull IJN Fuso 1938 and the waterline version.
Links:
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10139452
and
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10139453.
I was expecting that the new IJN Fuso will follow the Nagato release, that means new parts.New funnel, new main mast, new pagoda parts, new main guns, and new light/heavy AA guns.Unfortunately is the old mid 2000's IJN Fuso with no new parts.
Besides that, Aoshima has also an IJN Fuso 1944 in full hull version now, link:http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10137101.
Notice that this time the aircraft deck at the stern is accurate for IJN Fuso this time, not like the old one who was exactly the same as IJN Yamashiro, a mistake from Aoshima that it seems that they have correct it.
Now with IJN Fuso and IJN in three different versions what else is left from Aoshima ? IJN Yamashiro and IJN Mutsu... they need new subjects as soon as possible.And besides that Im not really geting why they didn t follow the same tactic with IJN Fuso like in IJN Nagato, new tooled parts !

[Atma]

The new IJN Fuso from Aoshima in 1944 full hull version is out, and notice that is has a 1944 stern.Wich I dont know what that means, I cant find any changes from a 1941 to a 1944 stern in the Anatomy of Ships:IJN Fuso.

[Kym Knight]

Can someone tell me at what level and where the signal flag lanyards tie off to on a 44' Fuso? A picture would be great or just mark the area below on my build. I sort of figured either of these two areas.

[Dan K]

I believe that the main yardarms are two levels down, Kym. My home scanner was broken so, these will have to do.

First is a 1941 inclining test for Fuso from Maru Special #3. Skulski indicates that there is not change in the yardarms from 1941 to 1944.

The second is of this area from an outstanding 1/700 build of Fuso 1944 by Toshifumi Kimoto (the vanguard website). I forget which Navy Yard Special this has appeared in.

[Kym Knight]

Thanks Dan, but what I meant was, which level had the flag lockers and tie off points from which they attached the flags? The added top line in my photo was drawn in because I hadn't attached the yardarm at that stage. The dotted lines are the outside flag lanyards.

[Dan K]

I'll try to look again tonite, before I go out of town for a few days.

[Kym Knight]

Thanks Dan. Actually this morning I happened to acquire copy's of Gakken's Fuso and Tone from an Ebay sellers personal collection he's willing to sell. $85 for the both, shipping included.

[Dan K]

While I can't find close-ups or diagrams that show flag lockers, that level does make the most sense as it is the base level for the halyards. FWIW