Calling all SMS Emden & SMS Dresden fans

[brad]

And a couple of close ups of the masts.

I made a lot of this up or took a best guess from what I could find around the place.

cheers,

bj

[ingura]

...

[brad]

G'day Peter,

Many thanks for that - this is something that wasn't apparent in anything I could find online - much appreciated.

Oh well - gives me something else to do....

cheers,

bj

[Dani1]

A gun originating from the SMS Konigsberg, sistership of the SMS Emden is on display outside the Union Buildings in Pretoria South Africa.

The gun is numbered Nr.369L at the rear of the breech. This 'makers mark' is however different on the right hand recuperator/buffer cylinder, the number being 367R. The left hand cylinder is numbered 369L with a top nut just in front of the breech also numbered 369(without the L).
In addition to the 367 and 369 numbers mentioned, the top of the breech reflects two further numbers, K8732 and Nr. 1052.
A K�nigsberg sight arc on display at the South African National Museum of Military History in Johannesburg reflects the number 368L.

Has any of the forum members recorded the numbering of the Emden guns on display in Sydney (memorial), The AWM Museum in Canberra and the RAN Heritage Centre? I would appreciate advice in this regard and am curious to know whether there are similarities in the way the guns of the Emden and Konigsberg are numbered. Are the recuperator/buffer cylinders also provided with the L and R and does the top of the breech also reflect numbering?

Your help will be much appreciated.

Regards
Dani

Konigsberg gun at Union Buildings

[brad]

G'day Dani,

The best people to contact would be the AWM themselves. They are extremely helpful people and are always happy to help those who show an interest.

Cheers,

bj

[Guest]

Thanks for the tip brad...have done so and will share the info if it proves interesting.

Cheers.
Dani

[Felix C]

1/350 Emden and Dresden discontinued again?

[Guest]

The Curator at the AWM kindly checked on the numbering of their Emden gun and reported as follows:


The gun is numbered �Nr. 404L� at the rear of the breech, but there is no date (like there is on the Konigsberg�s gun). At the top of the breech are the numbers �K4373� and �Nr.1320�. Neither of the hand recuperator/buffer cylinders are numbered.


Will be interesting to see how the Sydney and the RAN Heritage Centre guns are numbered.

Regards
Dani

[Olaf Held]

There is also a shielded deck gun from her in the AWM in Canberra but the only pics I have been able to find are from the front - not very helpful. They actually have a Sydney and an Emden shielded gun on display in one of their halls and facing each other.

This might interest you ...

GUN

I wonder a bit about that 'original German Naval paint scheme' ... (and they couldn't find smaller brushes to paint that thing?)

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

[Bondoman]

There is also a shielded deck gun from her in the AWM in Canberra but the only pics I have been able to find are from the front - not very helpful. They actually have a Sydney and an Emden shielded gun on display in one of their halls and facing each other.

This might interest you ...

GUN

I wonder a bit about that 'original German Naval paint scheme' ... (and they couldn't find smaller brushes to paint that thing?)

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

Oh, no doubt what was in the depot.
An interesting question. A friend who posts on another forum is currently serving in the Falklands and sent pictures of shore gun emplacements. They look to me like USN 4 inch guns, but as it's a British territory, and also a WW1 battleground; thoughts?

[DariusP]

Dani1, Konigsberg gun displayed in Pretoria was one of the 10 landed from destroyed Konigsberg sometime after July 1915. It was than given new wheeled carriage in Dar-es-Salaam and served (for anything from few months to over a year) with Lettow-Vorbeck Schutztruppen before being captured by one of the units of Smuts' force. I would have assumed that, during the campaign, when some of the 10 guns were damaged or had to be abandoned their parts could have been used to keep other guns in working order? Couldn't that be an explanation for recuperator no.367 mounted on a gun no.369?

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Hi all,

Emden or Dresden in their pre-war 'Kolonialanstrich' (colonial paint scheme) of white and yellow look splendid, my Emden is well on it's way having that scheme. She wasn't called the 'Swan of the East' for nothing!

As a contrast my Dresden will have the grey scheme of war. Officially this consisted of a very light grey upperworks and a just slighty darker hull, but the photographs we have from her just before she was scuttled seem to reveal a much darker grey scheme. The funnels appear to be even darker than the rest of the ship, but that can of course be caused by soot deposit as well.

As the ships of Adm. Graf Spee's squadron needed to repainted far from home I can imagine well that the official paint stocks were not at hand, and that any available grey paint would be just fine to get to the objective: camouflage.

Does anybody on this forum have found any more clues on this matter? Maybe something has been told about this in one of the books about the subject?

Maarten

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Hi Olaf,

Can you shed some light on this topic? As you have given extensive info on the official colors of the DKM, can you say something to what extent this applied to the EastAsian squadron of Admiral Graf von Spee?

Maarten

[Guest]

Dani1, Konigsberg gun displayed in Pretoria was one of the 10 landed from destroyed Konigsberg sometime after July 1915. It was than given new wheeled carriage in Dar-es-Salaam and served (for anything from few months to over a year) with Lettow-Vorbeck Schutztruppen before being captured by one of the units of Smuts' force. I would have assumed that, during the campaign, when some of the 10 guns were damaged or had to be abandoned their parts could have been used to keep other guns in working order? Couldn't that be an explanation for recuperator no.367 mounted on a gun no.369?

I think you are correct Darius....they were probably forced to mix-and-match in order to keep on going. It is for this reason that I am interested in the numbering of the Emden gun components to see whether they were also in the habit of swopping parts.

Thanks for your reply.

Dani

[Jimmy Conway]

SMS Emden ( Emden I , 1908 ) and sister Dresden were armed with two torpedo tubes of 450mm that are said to be submerged.
Does anybody please know the exact locations of these tubes?

Thanks: Jimmy

[Olaf Held]

Hi Olaf,

Can you shed some light on this topic? As you have given extensive info on the official colors of the DKM, can you say something to what extent this applied to the EastAsian squadron of Admiral Graf von Spee?

Maarten

I've completely missed this one ... sorry Maarten.
All I can do is to have a look at the 1911 paint regulations but I doubt that it will contain anything related to camouflage or other schemes than the two-tone grey livery. The DKM so-called piecetime livery (Friedensanstrich, also referred as to 50/51 scheme) was valid for the Highseas Fleet as well, but with the difference that they didn't have the RAL system back then. They had a number system for their paint schemes, I think that piecetime livery had the number 96 but I may be totally wrong. Camouflage schemes, if any, may have been evolved 'in the field' rather than on the green table at home. Too bad user 'ingura' (Peter?) isn't around anymore, he could have given valuable input on the subject. Maybe I can pester Falk Pletscher one more time ...

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

[mermaid]

SMS Emden ( Emden I , 1908 ) and sister Dresden were armed with two torpedo tubes of 450mm that are said to be submerged.
Does anybody please know the exact locations of these tubes?

Thanks: Jimmy

Yes, an important question for a full hull build. Me too, joining the question.

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Hi Jimmy,

SMS Emden ( Emden I , 1908 ) and sister Dresden were armed with two torpedo tubes of 450mm that are said to be submerged.
Does anybody please know the exact locations of these tubes?

Thanks: Jimmy

I believe I can answer this one for you:

The starboard transverse torpedo tube was located between frames 83 and 85, and the port torpedo tube between frames 85 and 87, where the foremast is located. Port always forward of the starboard tubes, as in the battleships of the German navy.

I believe these tubes were mounted at right angles to the longitudinal axis, as opposed to the battleships where they were mounted at a 20deg angle. The depth (centreline) of the tubes was about 1.80 metres below the waterline.

The Revell model of Emden/Dresden got it almost right, I think these were based on drawings Peter G�nter Huff. On these drawings there is a skin doubler shown around the oval torpedo tube lids, however at Revell these doublers were interpreted as recesses instead. The solution is to make a small plate in the shape of the recess, with an oval hole in it, and cement this into the recess, and then file this plate then in line with the skin, leaving only a slight step for showing the doubler. The lids themselves are then correctly recessed.

Hope this info helps!


Hope this answers

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Hi Olaf,

Camouflage schemes, if any, may have been evolved 'in the field' rather than on the green table at home. Too bad user 'ingura' (Peter?) isn't around anymore, he could have given valuable input on the subject. Maybe I can pester Falk Pletscher one more time ...

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

Thanks for the answer, it seems you are supporting my theory that the painting of Graf Spee's squadron might have been developed 'on the spot', bearing in mind only some general instructions from the homeland, transmitted by telegraph, and using the available paint materials readily at hand.

But if anyone else can shed some more light on this - welcome!

Maarten

[peppe]

in the plan i have (hamecher 1996 - kassel) the torpedo tubes room is between frame 74 and 80, right in front of first boiler room and the tubes are little inclined, in bow direction, more or less 20�
ciao peppe