Admiral Scheer

[Skiper]

I am planning to start Admiral Scheer in 1/700 from HP as my next project as she appeared in 1944 configuration and I'm wondering which WEM greys are suitable for her. Anyone knows which shall I pick?

[John Snyder]

Early 1944, or late 1944? She changed colors:

http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=466

[Skiper]

Both I guess. I haven't decided yet which 1944 configuration. I also saw the site you linked but just some hours after my original post. Tomorrow will pay a visit to your Greek dealer so would be great to know what should I get from him.

[John Snyder]

Others may disagree, but I'd go with Blaugrau 58.1 (Colourcoats KM 12) for the dark grey. For the light grey is use Colourcoats KM 13, Baltic Hellgrau.

[Skiper]

Thanks John. I'll get them both.

[Olaf Held]

Others may disagree, ... .

I believe the ship was much darker than the 58.1; colour photos of the ship (and others of that period) do show something in range of Dunkelgrau 2 or Dunkelgrau 31.2. - and not the blue shade you would expect from the blue-ish appearance of some of the camouflage paints that can be found in the 1944 edition of the paint regulations.

I may be mistaken but the 58-numbers were for subs only, need to look that one up.

I also need to look up where they repainted the ship. If it was on a German shipyard, there's a good chance that they did it with the paints stated in the 1941 paint regulation, maybe something mixing into it to make it fainter (as recommended in mid-1942). I may be wrong but Im think when some of the capital ships were used as training ships, they received this overall dark grey livery.

Don't forget WEM's KM05 for the boot-topping and dark grey steel decks ...

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

[Skiper]

Thanks Olaf. I will keep in mind your remarks. I'm trying to start with a base color coat and in the process some lightening for the scale effect plus the various black/white/brown/blue filters that Mr Griffith have pointed out, do change the starting color a bit, so I believe some kind of freedom is allowed in the hues of greys.

[John Snyder]

Hi Olaf,

I was hoping you would weigh in on this one. The photos didn't look dark enough to me to be Dunkelgrau 2, but if they were lightening it....

[Olaf Held]

Hi John ~ The problem is, well, my problem is, that I only can trust the written word, the 1941 and the 1944 paint regulation. What they did after mixing paints was allowed, by mid-1942, is a total mystery to me. Especially the forces tied up in Norway may have used everything they could find in Norwegian paint stores, or maybe the repair ships had enough 'German' paints in the paint locker. I think their knowledge and experience in camouflaging the ships grew in the course of the war, and that exactly led to the revision of the 1941 paint regulation - the result is the 1944 edition which, you know that, distinguishes between coastal and open-sea camouflage. We have colour photos of Scheer (1942) showing a dark grey combined with a light green-grey (named 'Dunkelblaugr�n') and the 'normal' light grey of the upperworks. There is nothing in the 1941 regulations looking like a light green-grey. This means 1944 regulation was a bit 'behind' the actual usage of certain colours. The next problem is the variety of versions for each individual photo, some showing a greenish, some a blue-ish hint. What can we trust? I think the more photos we have, the more we can rule out particular paints for particular time frames. Looking at other ships is also important. If Scheer was dark grey in 1943, other ships (e.g. the Prinz and L�tzow) may have used the very same colour when painted dark grey in that region (Baltic) and time frame. I even believe Scharnhorst carried this paint scheme (plus off-white bow and stern), because b/w photos do show the dark band around the bulwarks darker than this particular dark grey. The band around the base of the superstructure was RAL 7016 (like the waterways, rain gutters, steel decks and boot-topping). So, comparing this or that colour with known colours is essential.

It all falls apart when they really used submarine colours for the surface ships, HA!

Making paints fainter - or less intense ~ The use of burnt sienna, vermillion and/or ultramarine was recommended to tone down the paints. Making Schnellbootwei� out of pure White and things like this. I'm not sure if this effect would be noticable on a small scale model. I believe Dunkelgrau 2, RAL 7024, had a subtle blueish hint, esp. when you tweak it to make it less intense. Maybe that's how the 'Norwegian' colours were born, mixing different amounts of above ingredients which may have resulted in lighter or darker varieties. Too bad, just by looking at them, that they can be divided into 'coastal' and 'open-sea' ... (and too bad, Scheer was in the Baltic, not in Norway, when being dark grey ...)

Happy painting ~ Olaf!