Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[Randy53]

It sounds to me that if you want to model the Essex, buy the Essex kit. If you want the Yorktown, buy the Yorktown. I'm not a rivet counter but I do like to be fairly accurate on my builds.

I assume the Essex kit is correct?

[Tracy White]

:: pained look ::

It depends on where you lay the line between "correct" and "rivet counter."

The problem is that these ships changed over time; generally the Essex kit is good for mid war (1943) and Yorktown is good for late war (1945) but each ship varied in when they went in for overhaul and which changes they received. As a quick example, Essex went to sea with a H2 catapult on the deck and no hangar cat and remained that way for the entire war. Yorktown went to sea with a H4 on the deck and a hangar cat, then had the hangar cat removed, then later had a second H4 on the flight deck. Essex never had those changes because there wasn't time during the single overhaul she had during the war.

So the pained look wasn't at you but more trying to figure the best way to answer your question.

[Randy53]

:: pained look ::

It depends on where you lay the line between "correct" and "rivet counter."

The problem is that these ships changed over time; generally the Essex kit is good for mid war (1943) and Yorktown is good for late war (1945) but each ship varied in when they went in for overhaul and which changes they received. As a quick example, Essex went to sea with a H2 catapult on the deck and no hangar cat and remained that way for the entire war. Yorktown went to sea with a H4 on the deck and a hangar cat, then had the hangar cat removed, then later had a second H4 on the flight deck. Essex never had those changes because there wasn't time during the single overhaul she had during the war.

So the pained look wasn't at you but more trying to figure the best way to answer your question.

I'm stating to see what you're talking about with the refits. I've done a considerable amount of reading through this thread but I think I'm going to need some real documentation if I want a realistic 1945 CV-9. I have a multitude of DVD's on WW2 Pacific documentaries but that doesn't do much good with placement of features and upgrades as you all have noted. I need a reference book on the Essex Class. Any suggestions?

[Tracy White]

I don't have a Trumpeter Essex with me... Keith's notes are a good starting point for 1945. Some other changes you may wish to make would be to omit the gun director tub immediately behind the #2 twin 5" mount; you can see it's been removed in this photo on Navsource. Generally, Trumpeter did a poor job on the catwalk detail, so pay attention to 40mm gun mounts and missing gun director tubs as a start. There is no definitive Essex class book, nor one on Essex herself, but two that you can start with that won't break the bank are:
"Essex Class Carriers In World War II" By Glenn Arnold, WR Press (available here
"Anatomy of the Ship: The Aircraft Carrier 'Intrepid'" by John Roberts

The first book has photos and drawings for most of the ships... details on Essex herself are skimpy but it's a good collection of information that will be helpful for your other builds.
The Anatomy of the Ship (AOTS) book will have lots of details that are handy.... and gives a good reference point to look at for the class in terms of one ship's specific details that can be used as a baseline to compare to other ships.

Another one you may wish to look for, albeit more expensive, is "Essex-Class Carriers" by Alan Raven. It's very similar to the AOTS book in many respects but covers multiple ships in about the same size.

[Dick J]

Another useful publication is Floating Drydock's Camouflage #2 on carriers. It doesn't have much in the way of specific detail photos, but has enough photos to get some understanding of differences between individual ships.

[keithhufnagel]

Randy53, contact Chris Toops whose CV-9 is displayed in the Gallery section this site. His is the best Essex CV-9 (1/350) I know of. He has been were you are going now. He is a hellofa fellow and I'm sure would be glad to point you to books and references for your build. Hope this helps!

[One-Oh-Four]

Hi all,

I'm working my way through this topic during the last weeks (learned a lot!) and planned on asking my question(s) only when I had that done... However, coming Saturday I'll get my kit of Trumpeter's CV-9 Essex, so I've lost patience... My apologies if the following question has been asked and answered already!

I'd really like to build my Essex as USS Hornet (CV-12) as she appeared during the Marianas Turkey Shoot (June 1944). In fact, I've already ordered the decals for Air Group 2 from Starfighter decals:

http://www.starfighter-decals.com/35021 ... 21944.html

Looking at the data on http://www.steelnavy.com/essex_data.htm it seems that Hornet was in her original trim until September 1945.

So the big question for me is: what changes do I have to make to the Essex kit to model Hornet in June 1944? Aside from having to add the hangar cat do I only have to paint the model in Measure 33 / Pattern 3a or am I overlooking things?

As Tracy White remarked some posts earlier the Essex model probably has the single bow catapult as an H2-type instead of the proper H4. I don't know if that's noticeable since it probably only is a length issue?

Furthermore; if using 5" turrets from L'Arsenal, which should I use?
http://www.larsenal.com/catalogue/index ... s838713192

or

http://www.larsenal.com/catalogue/index ... s838713192

Can any of you guys please let me know what needs to be tackled?

Thanks in advance & best regards,
Erik

[Tracy White]

I'll dig up some more info for you later, with regards to the catapult though, the kit-supplied deck should be the correct length, actually. The kit should also come with the hangar deck catapult, if memory serves. It's a good starting point; there should be some corrections on the catwalks and changes perhaps to the island platforms to start.

[One-Oh-Four]

I'll dig up some more info for you later, with regards to the catapult though, the kit-supplied deck should be the correct length, actually. The kit should also come with the hangar deck catapult, if memory serves. It's a good starting point; there should be some corrections on the catwalks and changes perhaps to the island platforms to start.

Thanks, Tracy! Of course, when I have the kit in hand and have recovered from the pleasures of the Flanders' Modelling Festival in Antwerp, I'll look through the little I have on documentation and compare it to the kit. Of course I've got more faith in what you can come up with, since I'm an absolute novice on the subject, contrary to you! Thanks in advance for your efforts, much appreciated!

Cheers,
Erik.

[Tracy White]

I just want to see photos of the build

[One-Oh-Four]

I just want to see photos of the build

Agreed. But first the 1/350 CVL-22 Independence from Dragon that I just started. This'll be my shipbuilding CarQual's since I really am not "current" anymore. Last aircraft carrier was Italeri's USS Nimitz in 1/720 in the early '80's...

Guess you'd like WIP-pics of Indy too? Somehow I think that subject is also near/dear to you?...
I'm thinking of opening a WIP-topic on Picture Post as soon as something interesting is to be seen.

Cheers,
Erik.

[whaynes]

I'm having difficulty locating a Trumpeter 1/350 Yorktown to model as of Nov. 1944. I have located an Essex. What are the differences in the models as they come in the box? Is it fairly easy to make a CV 10 from CV 9? Thanks.

Walt Haynes

[Tracy White]

TO use the CV-9 kit to do a post November 1944 CV-10 would take a little work; there would be some island alterations, you'd have to add I think about ten quad 40mms (From memory so I could very well be wrong), radar changes, plus whatever corrections you felt like....

[One-Oh-Four]

And about my question about Hornet, someone indeed asked almost the same question! I found this posted in this thread on March 8, 2008 by Jim Russell (page 42):

"Use the Essex kit.

Hornet in late 1944 was an "as built" short hull. The only modification necessary is the radar, on the tripod platform there was the small parabolic range finder followed by the large rectangular air search. Mount the hangar cats but do not mount the two 20mm sponsons hanging from the aft of the flight deck. Use 4 large radio towers. As I recall kit fixes were round the flight deck ends, add blind bits to hull and add a walkway to starboard side of island at flight deck level. Later kits fixed the last three items.

In late 1944 Hornet had approximately 1 year on her paint so significant weathering/grime was present.

Jim"

[One-Oh-Four]

I'm having difficulty locating a Trumpeter 1/350 Yorktown to model as of Nov. 1944. I have located an Essex. What are the differences in the models as they come in the box? Is it fairly easy to make a CV 10 from CV 9? Thanks.

Walt Haynes

As stated before; I'm a novice on Essex-class carriers, so beware.. but I would think that the USS Franklin CV-13 kit would be nearer to a post-October refit Yorktown than the 1943-april 1944 kit of the USS Essex? Maybe you could locate a Franklin somewhere?

Cheers,
Erik.

[Adaks]

I'm having difficulty locating a Trumpeter 1/350 Yorktown to model as of Nov. 1944. I have located an Essex. What are the differences in the models as they come in the box? Is it fairly easy to make a CV 10 from CV 9? Thanks.

Walt Haynes

As stated before; I'm a novice on Essex-class carriers, so beware.. but I would think that the USS Franklin CV-13 kit would be nearer to a post-October refit Yorktown than the 1943-april 1944 kit of the USS Essex? Maybe you could locate a Franklin somewhere?

Cheers,
Erik.

Yes, Erik is right. If you want to build CV-10 in late 1944 it is better to get CV-13 kit instead of CV-9. There are only small differences between these two kits, so you will have less work.

And about my question about Hornet, someone indeed asked almost the same question! I found this posted in this thread on March 8, 2008 by Jim Russell (page 42):

"Use the Essex kit.

Hornet in late 1944 was an "as built" short hull. The only modification necessary is the radar, on the tripod platform there was the small parabolic range finder followed by the large rectangular air search. Mount the hangar cats but do not mount the two 20mm sponsons hanging from the aft of the flight deck. Use 4 large radio towers. As I recall kit fixes were round the flight deck ends, add blind bits to hull and add a walkway to starboard side of island at flight deck level. Later kits fixed the last three items.

In late 1944 Hornet had approximately 1 year on her paint so significant weathering/grime was present.

Jim"

I would like to add one point to this list. Configuration of 20 mm galleries on island (Trumpeter 1/350 Essex kit) is wrong for CV-12 in 1944. You will find good photos on navysource.

[One-Oh-Four]

Thanks Adaks! I'll look into that!

Cheers,
Erik.

[whaynes]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll see what I can locate.
Walt

[Tracy White]

I'd really like to build my Essex as USS Hornet (CV-12) as she appeared during the Marianas Turkey Shoot (June 1944). In fact, I've already ordered the decals for Air Group 2 from Starfighter decals:

I don't know what Mark has on his decal sheet in terms of numbers, but the weekly report of aircraft for the 20th of June, 1944 reports the following for Hornet.
VB-2 - SB2C-1C x 33
VF-2 - F6F-3 x 37
VT-2 - 18 TBF/M-1C (plus one additional assigned as CAG bird for a total 19 Avengers).
VF(N)-76 - F6F-3N x 4

Some changes to the CV-9 kit I see based on these two builds:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Which look pretty stock to me. I don't have the Essex kit myself.

- Slight difference on splinter shield shape around pilot house
- Mk 51 on top of pilot house should be moved forward so it's maybe 1/3-1/4 on the pilot house, with pipe supports coming up from the forward wind/splinter shield (see this photo on Navsource's CV-12 Hornet Page. Note that the Mk 51 directors with quad 40mm mounts above/behind them on the island have small blast protectors.
- Radars (believe this has been mentioned.... reference the aforementioned photo)
- Note she had the earlier twin 5" mounts without the blast shield around the top hatch.

[One-Oh-Four]

I'd really like to build my Essex as USS Hornet (CV-12) as she appeared during the Marianas Turkey Shoot (June 1944). In fact, I've already ordered the decals for Air Group 2 from Starfighter decals:

I don't know what Mark has on his decal sheet in terms of numbers, but the weekly report of aircraft for the 20th of June, 1944 reports the following for Hornet.
VB-2 - SB2C-1C x 33
VF-2 - F6F-3 x 37
VT-2 - 18 TBF/M-1C (plus one additional assigned as CAG bird for a total 19 Avengers).
VF(N)-76 - F6F-3N x 4

Some changes to the CV-9 kit I see based on these two builds:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Which look pretty stock to me. I don't have the Essex kit myself.

- Slight difference on splinter shield shape around pilot house
- Mk 51 on top of pilot house should be moved forward so it's maybe 1/3-1/4 on the pilot house, with pipe supports coming up from the forward wind/splinter shield (see this photo on Navsource's CV-12 Hornet Page. Note that the Mk 51 directors with quad 40mm mounts above/behind them on the island have small blast protectors.
- Radars (believe this has been mentioned.... reference the aforementioned photo)
- Note she had the earlier twin 5" mounts without the blast shield around the top hatch.

Tracy, thanks for the pointers!

Apparently, Starfighter decals gives enough markings to do the whole Air Group.
Markings are included for:
36 F6F-3
4 F6F-3N
19 TBF/TBM
33 SB2C-1
So there's one Hellcat missing in comparison to your sources. Not bad at all!

I doubt if I'll put in the whole Air Group, though. On June 20th most carriers had two deckloads scheduled to launch. The second launch was countermanded, however. According to Osprey's Helldiver Units of WW2 and TBF/TBM Units of WW2, Hornet launched 14 SB2C-1 Helldivers and 6 TBF/TBM Avengers. I don't know how many F6F-3 Hellcats, though.

For comparison: according to Helldiver Units of WW2 Wasp's strike consisted of 12 SB2C-1's, 16 F6F-3's and 17 TBF/TBM's. Strangely enough, TBF/TBM Units of WW2 mentions only 7 Avengers launched by Wasp... I'm not sure if that means that one deckload comprises around 20-22 aircraft and the Helldiver book mentioning the "Wasp strike" numbers actually means both deckloads slated to be launched?

In that case I would spot around 8 Helldivers, 8 Hellcats and 6 Avengers on the aft flightdeck for the first (and only) launch. On the hangardeck I'd put enough aircraft to look busy through the open doors.