Calling all Kriegsmarine Prinz Eugen, Admiral Hipper & Blücher fans

[California Bound]

Hi Antonio,

Thank you for posting those links. That photo is the one I was thinking of. I noticed that in the color picture from the "History of", the camo pattern is off somewhat. Your shaded pencil image appears to be more accurate to me. Dark color angle on turret B for example.

Is it possible that the top of the stack, searchlight cover, rear half of stack, lower half of crane, middle 105mm gun turret, rear dome(range finder?) and its support were a medium gray? Something between the two other colors.

Also, that the front 105mm should be in the light gray? When compared to the "History of" color scheme.

Dan.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao all,

@ Olaf,

as you know my friend with those ships always something new to find and learn,..there is were my fun is,..... I love them for this,.......

I would agree with your comments, the stern could have been entirely light grey RAL 7001 with no white, .. it is debatable, .... and the white on the bow can be on a different shape, .... even if it woudl be very unusual for KM warships .... still lot to learn from new available evidences,.. one day with more photos/infos I will be more precise.

YES, during April green and brown on the upperworks with dark grey camo....

@ Dan,

with this camo you have to use 2 main colours,... base light grey RAL 7001,.... and dark grey RAL 7024,.. plus white RAL 9002.

No medium grey's,......

Bye Antonio

[California Bound]

Thanks Antonio,

It's a relief that it isn't actually black like the "History of" picture depicts. I didn't want to lose that much too the shadows. Was dark gray RAL 7024 the boot top gray or was it the Bismarck dark bow gray?

Dan.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao all,

@ Dan,

I do not know this " History of " stuff .... but surely was not black.

It was the RAL 7024 - Ref. Nr. 52 - Composite dark grey for outer and inner surfaces - RAL-RGB 071-074-081 #474A51 Graphitgrau or Graphite grey and it was the dark grey on the Bismarck bow and stern as well when wearing the Baltic stripes camouflage, you are correct.

The other grey you refer to shloud be darker and it was the RAL 7016 RGB 041-049-051 #293133 Anthrazitgrau - Anthracite grey, and it was used for the waterline.


Bye Antonio

[Olaf Held]

and it was used for the waterline.

... and for the steel decks ...

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao all,

@ Olaf,

as usual my friend you are right when the matter is about KM colours, ..... steel decks included for RAL 7016 of course,..........

Congratulations for the " moderator " role here in, .. you are perfect on this role, .. I can guarantee it knowing your fairness and personal approach.

Bye Antonio

[Olaf Held]

Congratulations for the " moderator " role here in, .. you are perfect on this role, .. I can guarantee it knowing your fairness and personal approach.

Yeah, thanks, I don't know what has gotten into Tim. When nobody is watching, I drink all the beer...

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

[rdh]

Hello all
I have both the 1/350 and the 1/700 Trumpeter Hipper kits. Both show the bridge wings as solid structures unlike any of the other large German ships I am aware of. Were these solid, fixed structures or movable ones as in Prinz Eugen? I have seen a photo of Hipper without them showing so I am inclined to believe they are movable but just not certain.

[maxim]

As far as I know there were movable - and had canvas around it.

[rdh]

Thank you, Maxim. Anybody know a good source for a picture of them?

[Repulse1936]

There are some decent photos available to view online at the Bundesarchiv website, but they are not very large as I recall. There are at least two photographs of Hipper with the signal platforms folded-in, one each taken from port and starboard sides.

I believe the Profile Morskie book on Hipper also has photos showing the platforms both extended and retracted.

Hope this helps...

[rdh]

Excellent! Thank you. I will check both sources.

[mermaid]

There are Flyhawk and Lionroar upgrade sets for Trumpeter 1:350 Prince Eugen . Does anybody have opinion how similar they are? What are their respective "unique" features? Would it be reasonable to use both for an upgrade?

[Andrew F]

Hi Guys,

I visited the KMS Prinz Eugen two weeks ago and I have a large number of underwater photos and access to some video. I any of you are interested in a particular area let me know here and I will see if I have a photo and will put it up.

Andrew

[Olaf Held]

Andrew, many thanks for the kind offer.

I always wondered about how to access the large cylinders beneath the domed AA directors. I assume from somewhere inboards (NOT inside the ship), not necessarily visible when looking at my model, HA!

Then, I need to know what is left from all the railings. On plans and photos I noticed that not all of the stanchions were of the fold-down type, a few of them were solid and connected via bars, not chains. The latter, with the foldable stanchions, ran from the bow to roughly behind the turning circle of turret Anton, then solid railing under the deck overhang for the fwd 105mm gun, then foldable again at the cutter gantry, then solid until boat/plane crane, then chains from boat/plane crane, 2nd 105mm gun and torpedo tubes, then solid until reaching turning circle of turret Dora, from there chains until reaching the stern. There is a clear pattern, every segment where something can swivel outboard, needs the foldable chain railing, other segments were solid. Prinz Eugen (and maybe the near sisterships) were quite unique in this configuration, I never saw something like this on other KM units.

However, the next deck level (I think deck level 01 in American terms) is a bit unclear to me. Of course we need foldable railings at the extreme fwd and aft areas, because of the turning circles of turrets Bruno and Caesar. Everything in between on this deck level is quite a mystery to me - except for the two 105mm guns either side.

If you could shed some light on these, I would be very grateful.

Happy diving ~ Olaf!

[Andrew F]

Hi Olaf,

Unfortunately railing rarely survive 65 years underwater (and 2 nuclear bombs!) and the Eugen is no exception. While the occasional stanchion remains, there is far too little to determine the answers to the questions you pose.

Here is Anton looking aft. The guns were removed prior to Able for evaluation. You will note that all of the stanchions are gone:


Here are a couple of photos of the AA directors:




These are the port forward director. If you look carefully you can see what appears to be a hatch in the "tube" support

the aft director is not in such good condition:


And for interest, here is Doria:


And the props.... the "spinner" is much sharper than any I've seen on another cruiser we have dived....


The bridge was fantastic....



The bow:


one of the quad flak mounts


Hope this helps?

Andrew

[Olaf Held]

Hi Andrew ~ Many thanks for the photos, they just look great. What you titled as 'bridge' is the foretop gallery with the rangefinder hood and radar housing. I thought these would have received much more damage during the capzising. Looks like this structure simply broke away as the superstructure hit the seabed.

With regard to the railing/stanchions, I had hoped for anything remaining, esp. as things that thin wouldn't provide too much contact surface to atomic blasts. Anyway, I'll go with my rule of thumb, where something needs to swivel around, we need a foldable raling.

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

[DrPR]

There is a very good post-war photo of the Prinz Eugen here:

http://www.mighty90.com/About_Photography.html

It is part way down the page.

Phil

[Mike W]

While we're on about Prinz Eugen, I'm building the Trumpeter 1/700 Prinz Eugen 1945 and have a quick question. What shape was her catapult turntable in 1945? On the WEM etch set it's a circle but in the kit it's an asymmetrical shape, that looks very similar to the ones fitted on Scharnhorst and Gniesnau.

My Koop/Schmolke book doesn't have any photos confirming either way.

thanks
Mike

[Olaf Held]

Hi Mike ~ It's the asymetrical shape, no doubt about it. Photos of the ship in American hands do clearly show it (before they removed the catapult completely).

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!