Calling all Iron Duke-class (1914-1946) fans

[TI4438]

I'm building the Airfix offering and could use a few pointers on the red color of some of her decks.Which ones were painted red to be exact.
I'd also take any other tips on construction of this ship.

Thanks

Ed

[John Snyder]

Those "red" decks were actually covered with Corticene, a linoleum product. You can order a colour print of Iron Duke showing how to paint her here:

http://whiteensignmodels.bfweb.co.uk/ac ... ts_18.html

[TI4438]

Thanks for the response.I've asked around and Corticene keeps popping up.I must be on the right track.

Thanks again.

BTW,is the awning over the deck in this photo steel or canvas?Would it be painted the same color as the rest of the hull?

[TCC]

The brown Cortiscene was the colour of 'milk chocolate'. WEM do a tin of it.

Just substitute the brown for the red, OK? Basically, I think it is brown on all decks and platforms where men walk/are stationed. I think the difference between brown or red cortiscene is the date you depict the model. early is brown, late is red. If ID is 'as of 1916', I'd go for brown myself as the only red cortiscene I can recall is on Hood models.

The forecastle and quarterdeck will be planked wood.

Depending the era you are building, the flat tops of turrets, conning tower, etc, will be a 2nd colour. I've heard/read 'Bruinswick green' mentioned but I'd go for a mid to dark grey to a 'matt black' black:
http://www.johnrhaynes.com/princessroya ... oyal1.html

But am am looking at 2 images of ID here, one is early WW1 and the turret tops are ship colour, the 2nd is late war and they are painted (black?)

The roof over the stern walk? I'd say metal and I'd say hull colour.
http://www.johnrhaynes.com/lordnelson.html#thumb

The big ships boats, the 50ft steam picket boats are the same colour hull and anti-fouling as the main ship.

The Adfms barge is a colour such as green or blue according to the Adms taste (some research for you )

The 'open' boats are ships colour grey. It's up to you if you put a underwater hull colour on them? But they are white inside with natural wood 'seats', oars, masts, etc.

You'll probably find the main topmast is matt black.

Google 'hms iron duke' and click the 'images' link as others have built her.

[TI4438]

Thanks for the info.It should help me put a little more detail into her.I couldn't open the link due to a virus alert,but I found a pic of a very large scale ID where the 'back porch' so to speak was painted as if it were made of wood.I sure wish I could get a better look at that one.

[TI4438]

Found it!
http://www.wmunderway.8m.com/cgi/yabb2/ ... 1143890828

[Timmy C]

That would be our very own ARH's Iron Duke: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=20253

[TCC]

That's not a 'wooden sternwalk', that's a wooden handrail on a steel sternwalk.

Not sure why you couldn't open links to J Haynes site, he's a reputable model maker. Go to http://www.johnrhaynes.com/ and look for the ships 'Lord Nelson' and 'Princess Royal'.

Looking at the model you linked to, the Admirals barge was a bright mid to navyish blue with a white cabin/upper works.

What these lads do with small scales is make rigging from stretched sprue and glue it to between the yards and masts and the decks.

[You have a lighter and some sprue from your model, you light the end till it just alights then blow it out and push it into a solid surface and gently pull. As you pull, you'll form strands or rod of whatever thickness you require. ]

[Guest]

Ah!Sternwalk!
Ya learn something every day!
I will be using that ID as a reference for mine.It's wonderful!

[Hallis]

I did a little search and didn't see anything in the CASF section So I decided to start one. I really like this class of ship. They weren't really game changers like the Queen Elizabeth class was but they were still sturdy and could dish out the shells.

Here's a snippit from Wikipedia (Great article)

The Iron Duke class was a group of four dreadnought battleships built for the British Royal Navy before the First World War. The class comprised four ships: Iron Duke, Marlborough, Benbow, and Emperor of India. Launched from October 1912 to November 1913, this was the third class of Royal Navy super-dreadnoughts. The ships were essentially repeats of the King George V-class battleships; they retained the same ten 13.5 inch (34.3 cm) guns in five twin gun turrets on the centreline. However, the Iron Dukes had improved armour and a more powerful secondary armament of 6-inch weapons instead of the 4-inch mounted on the earlier ships.
The four ships were the most advanced battleships in the Royal Navy at the outbreak of the First World War, though they were soon surpassed by the five ships of the Queen Elizabeth class. They all saw extensive service during the war with the Grand Fleet, where Iron Duke acted as the flagship for the fleet commander, Admiral John Jellicoe. Three of the ships, Iron Duke, Benbow, and Marlborough, were present at the Battle of Jutland; the Emperor of India missed the battle by being in dock for periodic refit. The four Iron Duke-class battleships saw limited active duty following the end of the war; they were all demilitarised under the terms of the Washington Naval Treaty signed in 1922. Iron Duke was reduced to a training and depot ship and lasted in that role until 1946 when she was scrapped. Benbow was scrapped in 1931 and Marlborough followed in 1932. Emperor of India was sunk as a gunnery target in 1931.

Ship Kits Available
1/600 Airfix - Iron Duke (Out of production but still available at retailers as of Oct. 14, 2013.)

1/700 Combrig - Iron Duke
1/700 Combrig - Emperor of India
1/700 Combrig - Marlborough
1/700 Combrig - Benbow

Accessories
B&D Barrels 1/600 - 13.5"/Mk45 Brass Barrels (10pc)
Artwox 1/600 - Wood Deck Kit

Artist Hobby 1/700 - Upgrade Kit for Combrig (PE, Resin Turrets & Metal Barrels)

Gallery Models:

1/700
1/700 Combrig - Iron Duke - By Kostas Katseas
1/700 Combrig - Iron Duke #2 - By Kostas Katseas

1/600
1/600 Airfix - Iron Duke - By Ralf Roggeveen
1/600 Airfix - Iron Duke - By Wes Beatty
1/600 Airfix - Iron Duke - By Steve Collins
1/600 Airfix - Iron Duke - By Bernd Villhauer
1/600 Airfix - Marlborough - By Erick Navas
1/600 Airfix - Emperor of India - By Erick Navas

1/96
Scratch Built Iron Duke 1916 - by Ron Horabin (sadly, all WIP photos are out of order due to outdated photo hosting method)

I want this to be a live discussion thread. If you've got pics, reference materials, etc, and they are allowed to be posted here then please do

[Hallis]

There we go. Things are a little more up to CASF standards. I've got a 1/600 Airfix kit on the way of Iron Duke. Can't wait to get it. From the gallery it looks like it's a fairly simple and representative kit.

[jonesbry]

Building the Airfix 1:600 scale HMS Iron Duke.

By Bryan Jones.

Hi this is my first effort at super detailing a kit although I have been making models off and on for many years. These notes that may be of interest for anyone contemplating super detailing HMS Iron Duke.

Generally this kit appears accurate in most details, however it does not represent any particular era of HMS Iron Dukes long carrier.
Following the instructions one would create a model with the following.
The eight 3 pounder guns on the lower superstructures for and aft were all removed by 1915.
Two hull mounted 6� casemate aft were found to be too exposed to the sea were relocated to forecastle amidships by 1916. (The kit shows guns in both locations)
The bridge superstructure, mast, rangefinders, searchlights and searchlight platform structure around the after funnel represents late war early 1920�s modifications.
The ship is also festooned with extra ships boats added in the 1930�s.

I decided to build my model as she would have appeared during her last refit prior to the battle of Jutland in 1916. For my references I used my copy of British Battleships of World War One by Bart and every image I could find on the internet including a magnificent Scratch built HMS IRON DUKE 1916 in1:96 scale on this website.

First off starting from the base.
The floor of the dock was made from Evergreen: 4517 side walk 3/8� squares 9.5mm.
This approximates the size of the concrete slabs of a drydock at Portsmouth Dockyard.
Concrete supports made from chopped up timber moldings.

For the lower hull I used: White Ensign Colourcoat RN19 RN Anti Fouling Red.
For the prop shafts I used 1mm dia steel rod. (Easier and better results than the kit parts).

The 1916 paint scheme for the Grand Fleet was a monochrome gloss grey (matt paint was note invented at this time) made from 20 parts white and one part black.
I painted the upper hull, all vertical surfaces, turrets, guns, mast and booms etc with mix of Humbrol 130 satin white with Humbrol matt black to give a scale effect. I am happy with the result the model mimics old photos of world War 1 battleships with the light subtly picking up the gun turrets reflections.

For the 6� casement guns I used Modellmarine: SM-400-002 brass barrels. These are 4� 1:400 scale guns that give the correct length, profile and diameter to represent my 1:600 scale 6� guns.
The area around the casements is a poorly designed, too many parts have to align the up stands that are supposed to fit in rings that form the casements are oversize and a lot of filling and sanding is required to hide the joins were the hull parts met.
My solution was glue the casements to a piece of scrap by the existing molded on barrel, cut a section out of the ring and fit and superglue the new brass barrel in position, then cut the old barrel away releasing the new assembly. I cut the up stands flush then glued my new casement gun assemblies in position.

There is another omission I discovered late in my build was that the wall forward of the 6�forcastle guns should jut out to follow line of the deck above. This was resolved using 2.5mm plastic equal angle.

I purchased a second Airfix Iron Duke kit for use as spare parts for $20. This was because I was short of the correct ships boats, old style rangefinders, twin searchlights and correct unmodified main turrets for my 1916 build. (I still had modify one turret)

Next I filed off the moulded on anchor chains then I fitted the Artwox wooden deck for HMS Iron Duke in place. (This looks great; it really sets off my model)
The Artwox brass anchor chain I painted and cut to the four lengths required along with very thin plastic sheet strips to be fitted between the anchor chains and the timber decks.

For the admirals stern walk I used the existing Airfix floor filled flat and covered with an off cut of Artwox timber floor and the parts from White Ensign Iron Duke brass photo etch after first removing the roof from the airfix deck.

For the main gun turrets I superglued Bruce Buchner�s BDB60001 13.5� Iron Duke brass barrels in position. Blast bags were made from one ply of two ply kitchen paper towel cut to 3 mm strips one end poked in recess and rapped around each barrel add a bit of super glue (this soaks all around) then mould to shape with a tooth pick.
I was happy with the result.

At this point it was necessary to scratch build the armored cupola and remake the enclosed compartments on wings on the forecastle deck. The aft shelter decks were also modified with plastic sheet. Fore the two 3� AA guns no aftermarket was available so I used: White Ensign: 1:700 scale 4�single QF Mk HA mounts, these were ok for length, profile and diameter but slightly under scale for the mount.
All these decks were painted with Tamiya XF-54, this I felt looked right for a polished and oiled or tarred deck.

The ships boats lacked detail so I added some detail with plastic sheet and brass tube on the two steam Pinnaces and the Admirals steam Barge. For the other eleven boats I either covered with super glued paper towel or hollowed out the hulls and used White Ensign�s Ships Boats Fittings set.

There is a lot of door detail missing on the kit, for these I used White Ensign Iron Duke set positioned the parts using a vacuum suction pen.

The searchlight platform on the after funnel I had to scratch build from plastic sheet and also the hut between the funnels.

The worst part of Airfix�s Iron Duke is the parts that make up the upper superstructure not only are these needlessly complicated they are inaccurate. What has apparently happened is that no allowance for the thickness of the three decks up to the top of the navigation bridge, consequently it is over 3 millimeter to high this is noticeable because this level should be slightly below the top of the forward funnel.
So after a lot trimming to height in three places I still had to pack the funnels up by .5 mm. I filled of the three moulded on gussets under the navigation bridge and replaced them with the correct five gussets.
All these decks I painted using White Ensign RN19 Corticene.

Parts on the star platform and compass platform had to modified, deleted or relocated to backdate to 1916.
I scratch built the mast, yards and bipod braces from wire of 1.5, 0.5. and 1.0 mm diameter.

White Ensign Iron Duke 1:600 set was used for all the railings, boat davits, funnel caps etc.

Lastly for rigging I used the smallest very hard to find nylon fishing line: Varivas Midge Super Tippet 12x.
This is 0.067 mm diameter looks about right even though scaled up it would be 40 mm diameter on my Iron Duke.



For those that are interested I have attached some rough sketches of my build.

[Hallis]

Bryan that's awesome info! Thanks!

[Tom Burns]

I have a question about the appearance of the Iron Duke class that I am hoping someone with better knowledge can shed some light on. I am trying to confirm the size and location of the 6� gunfire directors that were added to all four ships during 1915-16.

Burt states in both British Battleships of World War One and British Battleships 1919-1945 that these were fitted port and starboard to Iron Duke at the lower bridge level, and to the rest of the ships at the upper bridge level. However, there are several photographs in the latest edition of these books that clearly conflict with this. For example, on pages 228-229 of the first volume above, there is a two page spread photo identified as Iron Duke, but with the directors at the upper bridge level. Based on later photos of Iron Duke as demilitarized, I am inclined to believe that the main text is correct and that the photos have been incorrectly identified.

There also appear to have been differences in the diameter of the 6� director housings between the ships. Based on photos and the as-modified Admiralty profile drawing reproduced in Friedman�s British Battleships 1906-1946, Iron Duke was fitted with 6" directors that were of very similar in size to the main battery director mounted above the control top on the foremast. Emperor of India�s 6� director also appears to have been of similar size. The 6� directors for the other two ships appear to be of smaller diameter. This can be seen clearly in the photo of Marlborough on pages 224-225 of British Battleships of World War One. This would be consistent with the equipment on the following Queen Elizabeth class; the AOTS volume for Warspite clearly shows that smaller diameter 6� directors were fitted. There does remain a degree of uncertainty to this information though due to the photo identification issue I noted above.

Does anyone have any additional information that might help clarify this issue?

[GXD]

I guess you can put me down as a fan as I have recently completed a model at 1/96 scale (78"). I was fortunate to get a gold at the Model Engineer Exhibition at Brooklands in 2016.

For full details may I suggest you visit the model boat mayhem website forum - Warships R&D. There is a full build log together with simulating gunfire plans and schematics. I should be able to get something in the region of 500 shots without reloading!

Hope this may be of interest

Cheers

Geoff

[MartinJQuinn]

When did the Iron Duke get the mast on the aft superstructure (circled, below)?

The Combrig kit alleges to be 1918, but Burt (British Battleships of WW!) says the aft mast wasn't added until 1920-21. I can't find any good photos of Iron Duke in 1918, only her sisters. Marlborough seems to have a smaller mast on the aft superstructure in 1918 (no searchlight platform) and Emperor of India has no mast. Trying to find out which is correct for Iron Duke before going too much further.

[PaulC]

Maritimequest has a photo of her which the caption says was taken at Malta in September 1919, and she has no aft mast, so if accurate it means she didn't have it in 1918. Hope that helps.



https://www.maritimequest.com/warship_d ... n_duke.htm

[MartinJQuinn]

Thanks. I knew I had seen that picture somewhere, but kept looking through Burt's books trying to find it!

[peppe]

in Perking's book on identificatiion of british warships vol 1 mast was added in 1929
ciao peppe

[Not_so_COB]

Anyone know if there is photographic evidence of the attached image? It mentions there is no evidence of another schema, sort of implying there is for the below.