About rigging....

[Guest]

Hi,

As a newcomer I tried a lot about rigging recently.

(Something between "what the hell is doing pizza cheese threads on my coffee
cup" and "wow... darling, I never thought that so few cheese could produce that
length of floor to clean up... really...")

I propose a thread here.
(for rigging purpose, it should sound ...
...well..
... OK, just forget about it.)

So here we go.

I tried recently three kind of rigging technics from what I learned from reading
your forums and watching your galleries.

First one is glove threads. Those are really fine threads, quite fine, but problem is
that when glueing them, they become thicker and sound quite huge at 1/700 scale.
I tried either with cyano glues and Revell plastic liquid glues.
This was my first try on a type 13 japanese sub hunter. Properly... well... awfull.

Second one is Nylon Threads. Glue is going finer on it, but problem is that even if going
finer, it did to glue anyway... Either with cyano or plastic glue I could not have the
contact point letting me fix he other side... Frustrating.
At some time I could achieve some "gluee&@@"�&�eeking" but then threads were really
looking bad, as nylon thread keeps the "shape" of its support(?) (fr=bobine)...
(tried on type 19 japaneese mine sweepe, not as awfull that previously, but not so
far...).

Third one was testing stretched sprue. From all of you guys ('n'girls?) I thought
I had to put a sprue on a flame then to bind it... After more reading (and burned fingers)
I understood the real way to do it : burn your sprue, have a flame on it, then blow it up and
put it on a basic sprue, then pull (or push, never know : not natural english).
Anyway, that was really fine about glueing it, but I still have two problems :

1. Threads are not of uniform thickness : they often are thicker, or thinner, or
twice (not kidding, 3D by there).
2. Glueing was tried with liquid pastic cement (both revell ans tamiya) with no
good result. Cyano glue was required to have decent rigging option.

( tried on the HMS Orslow, not so bad but not as good as it should...)

So about you guys, how are you doing that rigging stuff ?
What are your prefered technics/materials/burned_finger tips ?
advantages ? drawbacks ? preferences ?

Thanks for any feedback,

Bruno.

[Bruno Gillet]

I logged in, I promiss...
Just needed some time to check my syntax before posting.
Timeout is hard stuff for non natural English.

Bruno.

BTW: 2 posts, 2 oops. Not the kind of guiness I'm interested in.

[J Goodacre]

Bruno,

I use wire from small parts. It is .005 I believe. Basically usings a compass to measure the distance between the points. Then cut the wire to size. You can also use guitar wire as well can not remember which one An E I think.....

John

[coberg1]

Ihave heard good things about lycra thread (spandex?) I don't have a lot of experience rigging either and didn't like the results I got with sewing thread so am going to try the lycra on Yamato. I had no luck practicing with sprue either.

[Guest]

john, Coberg1,
'n'all

Thanks for your replies.

Advice of measuring before cutting is really good stuff, but it needs
real practice : when having to put 4 threads on a single point at another
thread it is far being easy... No other way than cyano glueing I suppose ?

About streched sprue, this is not so bad but I am sure some experienced
modelers could give better advices to have it really good.

humbly, here is my (small) experience. Hope this helps.

What I do is set a big flat sprue plastic labelled part, such as the
A/B/C labelled one on my desk.

Second I cut a part on another sprue and put it on a lighted candle.

When fire starts to set on the burned sprue, I blow about it so to end it.
(TAKE CARE : PLASTIC SMOKE IS SAID TOXIC !!!)

Then (quickly) I put the burned (hot) srpue on the prepared(flat'n'cold) sprue label.
From hotness the two sprues melt together.
Then, handling the hot sprue you just put on the prepared sprue, if you
push (or pull, I will have to invest on a harraps) quickly you will create real
nice threads. Rule I think is to pull/push quickly first, then, as sprue start
to become harder (colding) going smoother.
This is something I learned on this site from various sources.
Give it a try : Just take 2 sprues from an ended kit, a candle, an
OPENED WINDOW (not kidding here), and try it for free...

About lycra threads, I suppose it is what I called "nylon" threads (fr).
I completly agree it is looking quite fine, but the real problem I had was
about glueing it and the shape it keeps from it's original support.

About guitar strings, here it's BIG taboo. Some time ago, my wife throw my
Marshall away because at 2:00 AM she felt the highway was better to bed
than to hell... It's so hard to be understood, sometimes... (anyway, I got it back,
but shhhh... don't say anything about guitar strings, especially the last E...
ipleaaaase )

Bruno.

Hoping not another "oops"will be needed...

[Bruno Gillet]

Yet another OOOPS...

Is timeout that necessary, or was my last beer
stronger that I supposed it to be...

Such a philosophical subject...

Bruno.

[Francisco P. de Nanclares]

My method is nylon fishing line. I do not have the measure handy, but it is a really fine one, very strong and relatively easy to glue by CA. The problem here is tightening because you bend the masts out of alignment. Some of the masters here change the plastic masts for metal ones in order to solve this. There is an article in the How-To Section that may help you.

Cheers.

[Bruno Gillet]

My method is nylon fishing line. I do not have the measure handy, but it is a really fine one, very strong and relatively easy to glue by CA. The problem here is tightening because you bend the masts out of alignment. Some of the masters here change the plastic masts for metal ones in order to solve this. There is an article in the How-To Section that may help you.

Cheers.

Hi Francisco,

Yes, I readed that article and it is really valuable, but I did not feel comfortable
with making holes to anchor the thread on the ship. Especially as rigging is done once
the model is completed, with PE rails. Perhaps I will give a try to making holes with a
hot metallic pin, but as for now I could not glue nylon/lycra threads efficently.

I used Cyano glue/super glue, the drying time is huge and it's a mess to keep the thread
in place. In the how-to article, a "drying accelerator" was suggested, but I did not
understood what it was (I'm not natural english speaker)...

Have you any hint to share about this ?

Cheers,

Bruno.

[Francisco P. de Nanclares]

The only tip I can give you is I use a needle to apply a small amount of CA glue in place or dip the tip of the thread in it, then I wait for some time (I would say ten to fifteen seconds) until the glue is just beginning to dry, happly the rig in place and keep it there WITHOUT MOVING IT AT ALL for a few moments (another fifteen seconds or so). It usually works for me.

Hope this helps.

[Bruno Gillet]

The only tip I can give you is I use a needle to apply a small amount of CA glue in place or dip the tip of the thread in it, then I wait for some time (I would say ten to fifteen seconds) until the glue is just beginning to dry, happly the rig in place and keep it there WITHOUT MOVING IT AT ALL for a few moments (another fifteen seconds or so). It usually works for me.

Hope this helps.

Pachi,

...so perhaps here is the point I missed : I was not waiting between the moment I put
glue on the thread, and the moment I put thread in place. I will give it a try soon.

Thanks,

Bruno.

[Rob J]

Krazy glue works well too. It dries in a few seconds and is rock hard. Just dont get any on your fingers.

[Bruno Gillet]

The only tip I can give you is I use a needle to apply a small amount of CA glue in place or dip the tip of the thread in it, then I wait for some time (I would say ten to fifteen seconds) until the glue is just beginning to dry, happly the rig in place and keep it there WITHOUT MOVING IT AT ALL for a few moments (another fifteen seconds or so). It usually works for me.

Hope this helps.

... and it works ....

Just had a try, and feel less un-comfortable now with nylon/lycra rigging... even if Istill need some practice, BTW

Thanks,

(tried on a IJN mine sweeper... weakest than a cat.... Can you immagine that ??? )

[Francisco P. de Nanclares]

The only tip I can give you is I use a needle to apply a small amount of CA glue in place or dip the tip of the thread in it, then I wait for some time (I would say ten to fifteen seconds) until the glue is just beginning to dry, happly the rig in place and keep it there WITHOUT MOVING IT AT ALL for a few moments (another fifteen seconds or so). It usually works for me.

Hope this helps.

... and it works ....

Just had a try, and feel less un-comfortable now with nylon/lycra rigging... even if Istill need some practice, BTW

Thanks,

(tried on a IJN mine sweeper... weakest than a cat.... Can you immagine that ??? )

Glad to know it helped.

Have fun!

[David Griffith]

Dear Bruno,

I use braided nylon cord, which I can tease out to individual fibres that are almost invisible to the human eye, but still strong enough to take enough tension to pull them up taut.

You can either use the cord that you buy off a roll at a hardware store, though the fibres will ned to be stained black with a Magic Marker, or the handles from carrier bags that your wife brings back from shopping trips. I prefer this as different cords will be made of fibres of different thicknesses, which gives visual interest. They are also ready coloured, though I have not found any in light grey/brown for really accurate signal halliards! Unfortunately some are braided in a way that is impossible to tease out, but it's trial and error.

I glue the fibres to the masts with watersoluble stationer's gum. That's the gold coloured glue in the bottles with the rubber cap for spreading it on the paper. It sets in just a few seconds, is strong enough to let you put tension into the fibre, dries without leaving a lump, and is watersoluble in case you make a mistake.

If the fibre goes on without tension and you are left with wiggles and kinks, applying heat by holding a cigarette or soldering iron close to the fibre will make it pull up tight.

Look at the phots of some of my ships in the gallery of this website and you will see how fine this stuff actually is.

Regards,

David Griffith

[Francisco P. de Nanclares]

Interesting solution David. If I can find that braided cord of yours, I will give it a try.

Cheers.

[Guest]

Hello David,

Thanks for this detailed explanation. I just have had a look to your models, and I must
admit that this technic seems to give wonderfull results once mastered...

I will definately give it a try with the DKM bismarck I am currently working on.
( I have so much try to give on this poor Bismarck ...)

About the glue you told about, I am not sure wich kind of glue you are using, as
your description hardly match known things here in France. I will try to find strong
paper glue, water solvable.

About the trick of using heat to straighten the nylon threads, that's a really
good idea.

Thanks again,

Bruno.

[Bruno Gillet]

I definately hate timeouts....

Bruno.

[Guest]

Hi all.

What I do is that I collect old electrical wire....flex.....usually it used to be covered with a transparent coating
I tease out individual strands and put one end in a vice and the other end in a pin drill. I twist and twist until the strand gets very taught and straight.
I cut the required lengths and just lay them on with the minutest spot of super glue....then I paint them dark grey or black as required.
The tirpitz requires a lot of inticate rigging... for those interested it is on this site and one can see the finished result
Best regards from the little island of Malta
Louis Carabott