The Ship Model Forum

I only know the following, cropped from Steve's Warship Pictorial. Too fuzzy to see any shields there. I'm sure there are better and more images out there ...

Happy staring ~ Olaf!

Great catch Olaf Totally missed that...Looks easy enough to scratch.

here is a picture I found of the mount and gun. http://www.war44.com/misc/images/3/2cm_Flak_38.gif

_________________
"Only two sailors, in my experience, never ran aground. One never left
port and the other was an atrocious liar."
-Don Bamford

Anyone own the KA/MK1 wood deck for the Revell 1/350 Bismarck? I'm looking at them for a nice wood deck for my kit but it looks like their kit is missing the section of decking for the bow where the anchor chains are, but at the same time they include this section for the Tirpitz deck kit they make. Is that section included with the Bismarck kit and just not pictured?
Here they are
Bismarck-
http://www.ka-models.com/index.php?rout ... uct_id=264

Tirpitz-
http://www.ka-models.com/index.php?rout ... uct_id=297

No, the KA Bismarck deck does not include the bow decking section you refer too. The Eduard PE set for the Revell Bismarck does include that section. The problem then would be to match it to the KA wood color...

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Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.
Wyatt Earp

Does anyone happen to have a list of the recommended Model Master colors for Bismarck? Im having a hard time selecting colors as none of the RLM colors that my local hobby store carry seem to look right. So Im thinking I'll have to order them online.

RLM is for the wingy things anyway - which is not a bad thing if you trust your eye-balling abilities:

I don't have a specific list, if it should look 'right', take the lightest grey you can find for the superstructure, then for the hull a nice medium grey with a subtle hint of blue in it (it doesn't hurt if not, the only thing to take care for is that the superstructure is distinctively lighter than the hull). A very dark grey (NOT black!) for the boot topping (7mm in width on a 1/350 model, 3.5mm in 1/700!) and the very same dark grey for the steel decks. If you're doing your model in the Baltic camouflage, you need a dark grey (which is lighter than the grey for the decks) for the bow, the stern, turret tops (sloped and horizontal surfaces or horizontal only), bridge roof, rangefinder roofs, hangar roofs (depending on time frame). So, you need at least four types of grey. If you apply scale effect, and doing the Baltic camouflage, you need six types of grey (lighter than the lightest (HA!) for the white stripes, and darker than the darkest (but not black) for the black stripes.

I know this is not the list you were asking for, but I'm not familiar enough anymore with MM as I switched to Revell's Aquacolors. Hope this helps anyway ... if not, there are aftermarket companies selling Kriegsmarine colours ...

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

Does anyone know if any of the current PE offerings for the 1/350 Revell Bismarck include the stack handrails? I have yet to find any. If not, any good ideas on how to construct some would be appreciated. I thought about using some spare PE ladders and removing the rail on one side, but i'm not sure how well this would work. Thanks for any help!

Stack hand rails on 1:350 models look too over scale. They do not look prominent on any Bismark photograph so perhaps they should be as delicate as fungal growth to be true to the scale.

Thanks for the help Olaf. The paint scheme I am going for is how Bismarck looked in the battle of the Denmark strait. Im not locked into any particular brand of paints (I actually use Tamiya most of the time instead of MM but they are real limited in their color selection) so switching isn't out of the question if I'm able to get more correct colors. Do you happen to have the name of a company with a better selection of paints for the kriegsmarine, and a list of correct paints for that company? I'm also not familiar with the term "Boot topping" is that the water line?

Also concerning this particular paint scheme, were the turret tops painted dark grey in the engagement with hood? Kbismarck.com line drawings say that they were painted over but the photo evidence from the wreck suggests they weren't painted over as you can clearly see the dark grey on the secondary turrets and the captains bridge
Thanks again for the help

Yes, the boot topping is the waterline stripe. On the Kriegsmarine vessels it was't just a stripe, which sounds very thin to me, but a broad band. On battleships it was 2m in width (6ft-something).

Tamiya paints ~ A friend of mine used:

Hull Red XF9 (4 parts) + Red X7 (1 part) for the reddish-brown antifouling (I have yet to test this one, I prefer Revell's #37 or Humbrol #70 in 1/350),
NATO Black XF69 for the boot-topping and steel decks (sounds a bit black to me, could look silly on the model when it's too dark),
Light Grey XF66 for the hull,
Sky Grey XF19 for the superstructure,
German Grey XF63 for the dark grey roofs and turret tops (note that this needs to be lighter than the boot-topping and steel decks),
Deck Tan XF55 for the teak decks (I'd lighten this one up with the XF19 ==> 1 part XF 55 into 5 parts XF19)

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

Thanks! Turns out I have about half of those already, so I got lucky there.

I also found a post about WEM paints over at Kbismarck.
specifically this list-
Hull: DUNKELGRAU 51 (Dark Grey) WEM part #: KM02
Lower Hull: SCHIFFSBODENFARBE III ROT 5 [Underwater Hull Red] KM04
Boot Stripe: SCHIFFSBODENFARBE III GRAU I [Dark Grey Boot-topping] KM05
Superstructure: HELLGRAU 50 (Light Grey) KM01
Steel Decks: DUNKELGRAU 2 (Dark Grey #2) KM06
Wooden Decks: Teak

Anyone used any of these before with success? Are they airbrush friendly?

This one is an ooopsie, in reality this paint was used for the dark grey turret tops and bridge roofs, etc.
Read my post(s) here and on the previous pages again, the paint used for the steel decks looked the same as the one for the boot-topping. The ingredients varied from one to the other, but they were mixed to match RAL 7016, an anthracite grey. This information comes from the 1941 and 1944 KM paint regulation (Allgemeine Baubestimmung Nr. 31) and of course their former editions, which I don't have, I only have copies of the latter.

I used WEM paints before, but in order to keep domestic harmony in balance, I switched to the Revell Aquas.
If using WEM (or other makes), keep in mind, these are "scale 1/1" paints. If you want to apply scale effect to your 1/700 or 1/350 or 1/whatever model, you would need to lighten them down a bit.

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

Anyone able to get anywhere on Bismarck-class.dk? I can get to the main menu but when I try to access anything else I get a 404 error. It started happening a few days ago with some of the sub pages such as paint schemes but now I cant get anywhere on it. It would suck if we lost this resource.

404'd for me as well, same with their other sites (Admiral Hipper class, Deutschland class).

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?

Works for me today.

Questions about the wooden decks on Bismarck above the main deck. Was margin planking used around the superstructure? Between AJ Press and the Kagero books, it looks like it wasn't - but the illustrators could have left them out.

I'll double check my Classic Warships Bismarck volume tonight, but I'm a work now and was wondering, now that I'm ready to move onto these decks on the Bismarck I'm planking.

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Yes, they are clearly visible in photos (Wiper Pictorial, Kaiser books) ...

Happy planking ~ Olaf!

Yes Lion Roar set for Revell kit has the rails.

_________________
"Only two sailors, in my experience, never ran aground. One never left
port and the other was an atrocious liar."
-Don Bamford

I got the WEM paints in for the boot topping and the top of the turrets and bridge roofs(still waiting on the rest). Something the odd thing I seeing from the comparing all the can tops is that the Dunkelgrau 2 looks to be more of a charcoal black grey and looks like it might be slightly darker in color while the Sciffsbodenfarbe III Grau 1 looks more like a very dark blue grey and looks like it might be slightly lighter in color, its hard to tell. Would the boot topping have been lighter or more blue in color than the turret tops? It just seems odd that the boot topping would be more of a dark blue especially when the false bow is painted on I'm thinking it might make the false bow appear darker than the boot topping. I can post a picture of the can tops if you'd like

Also were the dark stripes from the baltic camo the same color as the boot topping or were they black? Do you happen to know a good color by WEM for the false bow paint?

Thanks again for the help
Dana

Hi Dana ~ The paint for the boot-topping and steel decks should be darker than the one for the turret tops, bridge roofs and dark bow/stern. Do an image search for RAL 7016 and RAL 7024.

Look at photos of the ships in Baltic camouflage, the dark bow/stern appears much lighter than the boot-topping.

The WEM Schiffsbodenfarbe III Grau 1 I had (I had two tins) had a greenish-blueish appearance. Maybe I didn't stirr them well enough. Very odd to paint this on decks as well.
Try to get their WE Colour AR G 08 Anthrazitgrau (RAL 7016) from their German Armour range of paints. This one is a very nice anthracite grey and closer to thwe real thing!

The black stripes were indeed black. If you look at Bismarck wreck photos, it's clearly visible that they are darker than the boot-topping, and they reach about half way down the broad band.

What do you mean with 'false bow' paint? The false bow wave or the dark grey bow (and stern)? This should be Dunkelgrau 2 as well.

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

Sorry Olaf, I was trying to describe the dark grey paint on the bow. I'll have to paint the Schiffsbodenfarbe III Grau 1 and Dunkelgrau 2 on a card next to each other to see what they look like on top of one another, the shade is just to similar to go off of the can tops alone. I'll order a few cans of that AR G 08 Anthrazitgrau to compare with those as well.

I was looking at some of the wreck video and it is cool that you can still clearly see some of the painted over baltic camo on the superstructure, especially around the captains bridge area.

Also might anyone be able to tell me what these three black spots are about three quarters of the way down on the hull? And would they have been on both sides of the ship? They don't seem to appear on the hull until Operation Rheinübung and remain there up until at least after the Battle of the Denmark Strait if not all the way to the sinking.

Dana