Calling all HMS Nelson & HMS Rodney fans

[TI4438]

Some times ya gotta do what ya gotta do!

[drdoom1337]

Question then,

To make a 1/700 scale 1942 Rodney, would I be better off buying the Nelson kit or the Rodney kit. I know the Rodney is in an early 30's fit and the Nelson in 1945 fit, but couldn't I just combine elements of both? I'm sure the AA battery on Rodney was increased by 1942. Were there any structure changes to Rodney, or would the bridge be the same with additional radars?

[kidcurrie42]

I would use both kits for a 42 Rodney and both kits for a pre 45 Nelson, still involves some scratchbuilding, especially on Rodney.

I am going to build both Nelson and Rodney.

I have a question, did Rodney ever recieve the same covered 4.7" that Nelson had? if so when did she get them.

Also will have some Radar questions later.

Happy Modeling

John

[tjstoneman]

RODNEY was fitted with shields for her 4.7" HA in 1942-43, according to Burt. A photo in which the after pair of guns can be seen to be shielded is halfway down this page: http://www.naval-art.com/naval_print.php?ProdID=2021
Tim

[kidcurrie42]

Thanks for tht Tim, that sorts that one out,

Ok Radars for Rodney 1942,

2 x Type 281.
1 x Type 284(Fwd director only)
1 x Type 273 main mast starfish.
1 x Type 283 on Hacs director.
7-9 Type 282 various positions

Happy Modeling

John

[RoddersUK]

What the deck party are doing on Rodneys deck are scrubbing the deck with sea water and hard bass brooms. The fact that they are in square rig is because it is a capital ship with all the bull that goes with it and presumably it was the Dress of the Day when the picture was taken.
As for the other picture I would suggest that the substance is Teak Oil to act as a waterproofing and preservative. Same stuff as we use on our teak garden furniture.

[tjstoneman]

John,

According to F.A. Kingsley (Ed) The Development of Radar Equipments for the Royal Navy 1935-45 (Basingstoke: MacMillans Press Ltd, 1995) ISBN 0-333-61210-8, RODNEY had RDF GA Type 285 for her 4.7" guns, rather than 283 (which was for barrage directors), and only 3 GC.282 sets. On the other hand, Alan Raven & John Roberts British Battleships of World War Two (Arms & Armour Press, 1976) ISBN 978-0870218170 says that "All five pompom directors were fitted with Type '282' radar" and "Four barrage-directors with Type '283' were fitted abreast and abaft the mainmast." Unfortunately, I'm not sure I've any photos clear enough to check these statements!

To be very pedantic, she only had one WA.281 set - however, a 281 set required two aerials, one for transmit and one for receive.

Tim

[EJFoeth]

It's best to be correct when you're pedantic. Both the type 279 and 281 were fitted with two aerials (transmitter and receiver) OR as transceiver arrays with only one aerial. The type is then annotated as the type xxxBs (although the type 279M is also the single mast version and should have been type 279B).

[tjstoneman]

Without getting into a flame war, I thought I was being correct - as you said, WA.281 (as I wrote) had two aerials, WA.281B (which I didn't mention), had one!

[EJFoeth]

I know, but the type is often omitted. So speaking of all radars type 281, there are single and double array versions.

[kidcurrie42]

Thanks for the replies Guys,

After doing more searching and reading, i think i am on the right track,

Am i right in thinking 282, 283 and 285 Yagi arrays and Directors were very similar looking? could be why i was counting as many as 9 on the drawing,

What is the aerial on the director on the foremast, behind the Main Director?

Happy Modeling

John

[tjstoneman]

All three (282, 283 and 285) used Yagi aerials. The 285 had either five or six Yagis (RODNEY had the six Yagi version, in a photo captioned 1942), whilst 282 and 283 had two. 285 was fitted to a number of different directors, depending on the ship concerned; in RODNEY's case she had a single HA.DCT Mark I (the one in front of the foremast behind the forward LA.DCT which you pointed out). 282 and 283 were fitted to pompom directors (http://hnsa.org/doc/br224/img/dia33.jpg) and barrage directors respectively (282 was also fitted to 40mm Hazemeyer mountings); the barrage director looked fairly similar to the pompom director.

[EJFoeth]

Austrial War Memorial 084639 is the only pic I found of the barrage director. Fitted to the modernized QE's. don't know about Rodney.

Doesn't resemble equipment I know...

[kidcurrie42]

Thanks Guys, that has cleared it up, i recieved my Toms Modelworks Nelson/Rodney PE today, and the diagram that comes with it helps, it had 6 positions labelled as 282 which i think 4 are 283, i labelled three that were missed as 282,
also the ones i labelled as 283 are actually at a different angle than the other 5 aerials. i have LionRoar, TMW and WEM PE for the builds, so i will use different brands for 282 and 283, slight differences.



Happy Modeling

John

[EJFoeth]

There should be one pompom director for each pompom mount and I guess one 282 per pompom director, so a head count should be easy.

Naval history.net says

> 1942 February: Her radar fit was upgraded and Type 282, 283 and 285 sets were fitted.

Raven & Roberts say: 5 pompom directors with 5 type 282's, 4 type 283's with barrage directors, fitted "abreast and abaft main-mast". (May 1942).

Your drawing with corrections seems to be correct.

BTW, UK national archives ADM 234/278 contains barrage-director Mk III information. A nice sketch or...? Who knows.

[guest]

Each of the five Mk V1 pom poms had a dedicated director with the associated type 282 radar for controlled* AA fire.

The Mk V11 four barrelled pom pom on B turret did not have a dedicated director.

The four Mk 1 or 11 type 283 radar controlled blind fire auto barrage directors were each for, respectively:
The starboard 6" battery.
The port 6" battery.
The starboard 4.7" battery.
The port 4.7" battery.
These barrage directors were the control for long range blind AA barrage* fire.

On the profile drawing, the item labelled as type 291 radar is in fact the type 240 IFF aerial.

*Barrage and controlled AA fire are quite different from each other. The HACS director with the type 285 radar behind the main director on the bridge is the one that would be used for CONTROLLED AA fire for the 6" and 4.7" guns and MAY have been used for radar directed 16" AA barrage fire.
Raven.

There should be one pompom director for each pompom mount and I guess one 282 per pompom director, so a head count should be easy.

Naval history.net says

> 1942 February: Her radar fit was upgraded and Type 282, 283 and 285 sets were fitted.

Raven & Roberts say: 5 pompom directors with 5 type 282's, 4 type 283's with barrage directors, fitted "abreast and abaft main-mast". (May 1942).

Your drawing with corrections seems to be correct.

BTW, UK national archives ADM 234/278 contains barrage-director Mk III information. A nice sketch or...? Who knows.

[EJFoeth]

My latest pompom list had the following

2 x Mk V, 3x Mk VI (one on aft deck) 1 Mk VII on B-turret , but the differences between the V and VI are very small. It appears all had flash suppressors for the barrels when the additional pompoms were fitted.

[kidcurrie42]

Thanks Guys,

Ok Nelson 1943, Drawing i have shows what i think are the following,

2 x 281 Aerials
2 x Hacs with 285
1 x 273
4 x 283 with Barrage directors
0 x 282

6 x Octuple Pom Poms
40 x Single 20mm

Happy Modeling

John

[kidcurrie42]

Hulls for Nelson and Rodney have had all the holes for Boat and Supply davits filled and sanded, seam marks sanded and both have been given a coat of light grey primer. Going to proceed with assembly of PE Pom Poms next. Will post some progress pics soon.

Happy Modeling

John

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Hi Everyone,

Some years ago I started a scratch-built of HMS Rodney in May 1941 config. Last weekend my good friend Jan gave me the custom resin castings he made for me of the Rodneys 16" turrets, I had made a master some months ago. Today I had some time to clean them up and fit the brass guns, which I had received from the late Steve Nuttall, a few months before his untimely death.

Having the main and secondary armament in place seems a good moment to unveil this project of mine, as all the major parts are now there. But as you all know, there is still along way to go with detailing, first task will be to construct the 4.7" HA QF guns. Thanks to John Lambert I have good drawings of those now.

Well, enjoy the picures! Unfortunately the lighting conditions were not ideal and my camera is not the best either, in due time I hope to make some better ones. I detailed the hull with all the shell plates according to the NMM plans.