Calling all Russian submarine fans

[Atma]

The lower arrow in your photo I think that may be a flank sonar called Shark Hide flank array sonar.
But I`m not sure.
Regards.

Oh thanks for the clarification

[Atma]

Well I found those 2 pictures of Alexander Nevsky(The second Borei class submarine) while the sub was launched at Sevmash shipyard. It shows clear that the bow planes are retractable.

and

[Atma]

Something that I need to clarify, when Im talking about the difference between the new R-29RMU Sineva equiped Delta IV submarines and the older R-29RM Shtil missiles, Im talking about this bulge/thing/curve in the black circle:

[gesalinas]

I think that you shows inside the circle is not related to the type of missile. The change in size of the missile is seen in a swelling in the belly of the ship because of its greater length.
Also, the larger diameter of the new missile does not influence the increase in width at the waterline (the difference is a few centimeters in the diameter of the missile).
Regards.

[Atma]

Yeam Im just saying that the "swelling" appeared after the equipment of the new R-29RMU Sineva. With the older R-29RM Shtil missiles that "swelling" was missing.

[Atma]

Here is some more pictures of the second Borei Class submarine, Alexander Nevsky:

[Atma]

And here is some interesting photos of a Delta III submarine 14 completed, 5 active).
The first one is with the standard 5 blade propelers while the second is equipped with new 7 blade propelers.

and


Really dont know if eventually the 7 blade propelers have equipped to the rest Delta III or is just for a single ship, somekind of experimental use.

[Atma]

Some nice drawings of the evolution of the Borei class:

The first image is the genesis of the Borei class, project 881 equiped with the R-39 Rif ballistic missle:


The second is the Project 955 equiped with the R-39 Rif(used also by Typhoon class), and the second submarine is with the upgrade version of R-39 Rif, R-39UTTH "Bark", wich was canceled in favor of RSM-56 Bulava.



Last image is the RSM-56 Bulava equiped Project 955. Last image is the final Project 955/Project 955A that is produced and operated by the Russian Navy, a further upgrade will be Project 955U. Is reported that this modification will include major structural changes and the installation of 4 more (20 total) launch tubes(Sadly no drawings for the Project 955U).

[navydavesof]

Some nice drawings of the evolution of the Borei class:

Very nice. Thanks for sharing those.

[Tim Jacobs]

Looking at this photo of a Typhoon class SSBN, does anyone know how far down the verticle sonar panel goes? Does it wrap all the way around to the other side?

Thanks!

[gesalinas]

This photo may be that can help to you:



Regards

[Tim Jacobs]

Thanks. Appreciate it.

I talked to a gentleman I work with who was on the START/START II Treaty Verification Team. He wasn't sure if that sonar array wraps around or not.

He said the paint on the hulls of the boomers they inspected (DELTAs and TYPHOONs) were not consistant. Some were all black (aside from sonar arrays), some had anti-foul red from just below the waterline on down, some had anti-foul red much lower. There didn't seem to be pattern to which hull had which paint combination on which date or after refit.

He also said the markings on the hull, e.g. the white lines at the waterline, were painted out when the sub prep'd for a patrol.

[Neptune]

Sorry for jumping in so late.

The Borei class certainly has retractable diving planes as she's built on a then existing unfinished Akula class. Back in 2000 (or around that time) they crash-redesigned the ship, because it was not possible to really build what they wanted. They were forced to use the unfinished Akula hulls which were then still in the building halls (of which the current Nerpa is also an example, I think the other one was named Kuguar). For designing and constructing they used one of these hulls, some of the features, namely the hull shape (and the bow in particular) as well as the small retractable thrusters, the diving planes and the limber hole pattern forward and aft are remains of that ancestry. The Yasen, who was built on a new hull from scratch, doesn't have any of these features. They just adjusted the Akula hull by adding that top part and a new sail as well as lengtening it amidships. Furthermore they added some volume on the aft body to support the heavier weight of the pump jet, but that was basically all they did.

As for Delta IV, the original also had the bulge on the bottom, it's not a sonar, the flank array is the one forward, just aft of the bow array, very visible in the picture you posted. The bulge most likely has to do with the forces incorporated in the launch as these subs can also launch when they are on the surface. This affects the forces a lot, the bulge is most likely to strengthen it as it is also seen on the older ships.
Surprisingly that Delta III has a seven blade, the Delta IV has still retained her, similarily skewed, 5-blades.

The object on the Delta you have circled first (in your second question I believe) was there to keep any ice from the propellors, it's meant to split open the ice in a opposite V shape to keep the props clear when surfacing through the ice. The reason for removal was most likely because they don't do such operations anymore (or because it was not effective and it puts a strain on the attached part of the hull). 3 similar shapes can be found on the Typhoon's stern, although placed facing forward rather than aft.

[Atma]

So the remaing 5 active Delta III have the 5 blade propelers replaced with new 7 blade ones ?
The picture with the 5 blade propeler is rather new though. Taken sometime mid 2000's, while the 7 blade one is older, so it might only be for testing purpose.
And Im almost sure that all the Russian's SSBN from the Yankee class onwards where able to fire from surface too.
Anyway, thanks in advance.

[Neptune]

Yes I do think it was for testing purposes. They did a lot of these things, there was also one Victor I with the SOKS detection system as well as the tandem 4-blade propellor, while the original also had a 5-blade prop. She was just a testbed for the later Victor III class. Same could be the case for this Delta III. Changing a propellor is not an easy job, considering the engine installed etc. The sub in the first picture, with the 5-blade prop is the Georgi Pobedonesets, taken in 2003. It's also possible that they were built with different props, a batch I having a 5-blader while batch II 7-bladers. After delivery they perhaps didn't change any of the props resulting in older pictures of a later unit with 7-blade props and newer pics of an older unit with 5-blades.
Same happened with the Victor III class, although one class, the older units had the tandem 4-blade prop and later units have a single 7-blade prop (once available), I guess the same may have happened to the Delta's. Haven't put the timeline next to it, but at some point they had sudden access (don't remember from the top of my head when) to Western propellor technology, allowing them to build more bladed skew props rather than their regular rudimentary 5-blade (this event is also referred to as a Japanese scandal, but as far as I know, several European companies were also involved in it).

And indeed all Russian SSBNs were capable of launching from the surface, the missiles they launched were quite different though. In addition to different length, they 'd also exert a different amount of force to the hull. I guess the Delta IV was just a little too restricted in size to handle the missiles she had. I've also checked the feature you encircled on that picture, and that's always been there as well. It's just not very visible on older pictures as generally this limber hole line is very close to the waterline and her dark coating makes it a bit obscure. From forward views you can see the clear widening near that limber hole though.

[Tom Dougherty]

Haven't put the timeline next to it, but at some point they had sudden access (don't remember from the top of my head when) to Western propellor technology, allowing them to build more bladed skew props rather than their regular rudimentary 5-blade (this event is also referred to as a Japanese scandal, but as far as I know, several European companies were also involved in it).

That was the famous 1987 Toshiba case, in which computer controlled milling equipment was shipped to the then USSR. A Norwegian firm, Kongsberg, was also involved. The CNC machinery allowed the USSR to make the complex shaped skewed propellers that greatly reduced a low frequency noise known as "blade rate". This is caused by the interaction of the standard propeller with the wake of the control surfaces (sternplanes & rudders) forward of the propeller. Skewed blades enter and exit the wake much more gradually, and have other features to reduce the vibration. Blade rate noise carries extremely well with little distortion in the deep sound channel for a long distance.

And indeed all Russian SSBNs were capable of launching from the surface, the missiles they launched were quite different though. In addition to different length, they 'd also exert a different amount of force to the hull. I guess the Delta IV was just a little too restricted in size to handle the missiles she had.

The Russian missiles are (with one exception) all liquid fueled rockets (usually UDMH and nitrogen teroxide) vs. Western solid fuel rockets. They are also ignited in the launch tubes, rather than being ejected by steam as in the West, with ignition after they enter the air. One Western SSBN, Henry Clay (SSBN 625) did make a surface shot back in the 1960's, but virtually all Western SSBN shots are submerged. The one surface shot was made with the SSBN healed over so that if the missile did not ignite, it would not land back on the submarine (which would make for a real bad day...).

[Atma]

A very "clean" picture of the second Borei class SSBN Alexander Nevsky's sail, with a wealth of details:

I can provide a bigger resolution picture, just send your e-mail via pm.
Enjoy !

[Atma]

After Hobby Boss's Borei class SSBN in 1/350, link:
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10151780
This time Bronco release a Borei class also in 1/350, link:
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10165383
Enjoy !

[Atma]

The new multipurpose attack submarine Yasen class submarine Severodvinsk is going for the first time for trials in open sea, new pictures of her:

and

[navydavesof]

Yikes! Those are some fearsome subs. Great pictures. Thanks!