IWM photograph collection/visit

bengtsson · Post by **bengtsson** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:13 pm

Just a note for the members of this board. I'll be on a visit to the IWM photo dept. in a week and a half. Should any member be interested in a particular ship, I might have time to look up a few and email you a photo number so you might order a copy. Anyone interested, name your ship and I'll post photo numbers and ship names when I get back. I don't expect there will be many, so feel free to post a request here in the next few days if you like. That is the Imperial War Museum Photo Dept. in London.
Bob B.

Post by **JWintjes** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:30 pm

Hi Bob,

great offer! I wonder whether the IWM may have photos of SMS Seeadler - I think it's highly unlikely, but you never know (perhaps they acquired some stuff from NZ archives in the past).

Jorit

Laurence Batchelor · Post by **Laurence Batchelor** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:37 am

I went there about a year ago, I found the All Saints Annex quite hard to find, its tucked away round the back of the main musuem and in the back streets.

Inside after signing in and waiting for about 30minutes someone finally came to collect me and took me down the hall and through a door into the photo room.

All the photo's are housed in black boxes in a massive file system at the back of the room. You search on the nearby pc's to find what boxes you need to look in, I cant remember the ones that warships were in sorry!

You are able to do photocopies of photo's in there by putting coins in their machine, I spent a bout half a day in there and did photocopies everything they had in their archives o the 4 ships I was researching!

Also ask the guy on the desk as some photo's are tucked away in back rooms and he'll find some more for you, well it worked for me for more pictures of HMS Skate H39!

Order forms are on the tables, I just took 4 sheets and did the order once I got home as there is a lot choice in terms of colour or b/w or sizes etc. Delivery for my large order took about 4 weeks!

Be warned their photo collection on warships are mainly the official wartime photo's taken and they dont have all warships. For example they didnt have a single photo of HMS Havelock H88 a WW2 Destroyer in service 1940-1946, when I told the bloke he was like "was she sunk early in the war?" I said no She served right throughout WW2, so their collection doesnt have everything.

Your next best stop is the National Maritime Musuem, their ship plans and photo dept is at the Brass Foundry at Woolwich Arsenal SE London. Everything they have is catalogued on their website and take note IWM they actaully tell you which angle the photo is taken!

I visited them the day before the IWM and found them far more professional and helpful. Their photos are ones the IWM dont have, so they have peacetime and a few private collections donated over to them.

Not to mention they have the largest collection of ship plans in the world all housed under the 1 roof alongside their photo collections!

Ah bliss!

Kind Regards
Laurence Batchelor

Cheesecake-Class Cruiser · Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:16 am

I think the IWM has this pic but I'm not sure, I've heard conflicting information.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/gra ... tle_01.jpg

It is the German battleship Bayern sinking in Scapa Flow on 21st June 1919
If you could find a photo number while you're there that would be swell!

bengtsson · Post by **bengtsson** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:46 pm

Yes, I'm going to be looking for the photos of the German Highseas Fleet's surrender and internment at Scapa Flow. So will get you a neg. number if I can.
I have visited the IWM photo dept. way back when it was upstairs of the main Museum. They have many warship photos in albums, but the real treasure is in those boxes you mentioned. I recall needing to ask for which box I wanted to get into and they were brought by the staff. I found alot of wonderful photos that way, trouble is it was very random what you would get in a box. I found a collection of photos taken of HMS Exeter's damage from the action with Graf Spee. We have all seen a couple printed in bocks, but these were all new to me and very detailed in scope. Yes, I agree, the IWM photo dept is not very well organized. Just have to do my best. I've got the warship catalog from the National Maitime Museum and have ordered from them. Very nice pictures!
Bob B.

Filipe Ramires · Post by **Filipe Ramires** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:52 pm

Hum, this sounds very interesting indeed. I was on IWM some 4 years ago on normal visit. I am aware that the IWM photo archives are very interesting. Perhaps the next time I will go to London on research I will drop by to have a look around also. Please, keep us all informed of your progress! Good hunt!

ARH · Post by **ARH** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:57 pm

Hi Bob,If you see anything on HMS IRON DUKE 1916, deck details, superstructure, guns, stacks, take a neg number, please, ARH

maxim · Post by **maxim** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:51 am

bengtsson wrote:Yes, I'm going to be looking for the photos of the German Highseas Fleet's surrender and internment at Scapa Flow. So will get you a neg. number if I can.

If you found photos of German light cruisers of the Hochseeflotte, I would be interesstend in them.

Post by **JWintjes** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:50 am

Bob,

do you still happen to have the Exeter damage photos? I'd be very interested in them.

Jorit

bengtsson · Post by **bengtsson** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:48 am

JW,
No I don't have the Exeter neg. numbers. I should have, but was busy looking for other ship photos. I'll see if I can find them again next week along with the other requests here. I'll post again in Oct. when I get back and list the neg. numbers for anthing good I find. I'm hoping to finally find good photo documentation of the German Highseas Fleet during the surrender and interment. And some GrandFleet BBs and BCs.
Bob B.

bengtsson · Post by **bengtsson** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:44 pm

Well, I'm back again from my visit to Europe and I did make a visit to the Imperial War Museum photo department. I spent three afternoons there and found alot of interest to me. I won't bore anyone with details, but if anyone has any questions about how it operates and what is to be found there, please ask.
As per requests, I found the following:

They have no photos listed for SMS Seeadler, the German Raider
Under HMS Iron Duke [1916] I found a couple: SP.1903
SP.1020
Q22914
none are bridge close ups, but do show the whole ship fairly clearly.

Not much to be found for German WWI Light Crusiers, just the few photos we have all seen a hundred times.

The photo number for SMS Bayern sinking at Scapa Flow is : SP.1626

I did not get so far as to find the damage photos of Exeter, but I know they are there, I'll find their numbers next time I visit.

I guess that was all that was asked for.

I found the damage photos of Seydlitz, K�nig, Derfflinger from Jutland
Bayer mine damage, V69 from 16 Feb. 1917
High quality photos, the same as were reproduced in Koop's "Die Grosen Kreuzer Von der Tann bis Hindenburg" although badly reproduced in the book they are sharp and clear in the Museum copies!

My main interst in this visit was to find photos of the USN Navy destroyer force sent to Europe in WWI. I struck gold on that score! Found a large collection of photos taken onboard the USN ships and a few good individual ship photos.

AS for HMS Dreadnought Battleships, they tend to be poor photos , dark and from a distance. Early pre dreadnoughts and armoured crusiers are found in large numbers, clear sharp and close up. no end to good pre dreadnought era HM ships. Sad that almost all the dreadnought photos are very poor. Although there was a large collection of fine photos of BC HMS Australia, including naval life onboard.

Bob B.

Laurence Batchelor · Post by **Laurence Batchelor** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:20 pm

Bob if it's mainly WW1 era photos yoy should try the National Maritime Museum as the IWM primary focus is generally wartime shots in ww2.

They were much more friendly than the IWM staff, to me anyway as I visted both.

The NMM has a very good website and their entire catalogue is listed in full on their website, unlike the IWM! However they dont have preview shots like the IWM has. The NMM also has bothered in the description to explain the angle any photo is taken in from.

Give them a try as they have many private collections of photographs handed over to them over the years.

Cheers
Laurence

bengtsson · Post by **bengtsson** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:23 pm

Laurence,
Yes, thanks for the tip. I did get the NMM catalog of photos many years back. I got sime nice RN Battle Crusier photos from their collection. I found that the IWM staff was a bit unfriendly at the start. But by my third visit they we quite friendly and helpful. Guess they need to warm up to a person or something!
Sure will visit the NMM photo dept. on my next visit. I am always looking for nice wartime photos of WWI era RN ships. Can one view actual photos there and then choose those one wants. Or is it more like the catalog where you choose from a discription? The private collections they have acquired do interest me alot. When I get time I'll spend more time looking over their web site. Do they have a complete list there of all their photos I wonder.
Must say though, that my find of a large collection of photos of the USN Destroyer force in WWI was a real happy surprise. And given time at the IWM there is much to be found that does not appear in their albums on display. Main thing is time, one needs days to get in depth and discover all that can be found at the IWM photo dept.

Bob B.

Laurence Batchelor · Post by **Laurence Batchelor** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:38 am

Yes you can arrange an appointment to visit the Brass Foundry in Woolwich Arsenal London to look at the NMM photo's. They dont have them all in boxes like the IWM do though, and you will have to say what you wish to look at before you go as they have to get them out of storage I believe.

Our sources for photos in the UK are the Royal Naval Research library in Portsmouth, the World Ship Society who hold a large collection from private collections and of course the Wright & Logan collection held at HMS Victory Portsmouth but that wont contain much WW1 I feel.

bengtsson · Post by **bengtsson** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:15 am

Lozza1981 wrote:Your next best stop is the National Maritime Musuem, their ship plans and photo dept is at the Brass Foundry at Woolwich Arsenal SE London. Everything they have is catalogued on their website and take note IWM they actaully tell you which angle the photo is taken!

Kind Regards
Laurence Batchelor

Laurence,
Hello, I am bringing this discussion out of mothballs as I am making a trip to London in two weeks. I've contacted and filled out the paper work for a visit to the NMM photo dept. I've visited the NMM a number of times and it is easy to get there. Here comes the question. How is it best to get myself to the Woolwich Arsenal site? Never been there and haven't a clue. I expect I'll take light rail to NMM and where do I go from there? Any help will be appreciated

Thanks!

Bob B.

Laurence Batchelor · Post by **Laurence Batchelor** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:29 am

Bob I took the train and I went from Tower Bridge which is a major over and underground station.

It headed East out of London and I got off at Woolwich station.

Now if my memory is correct, you come out of the train station's main entrance walk over a small road then up a street with shops to your right hand side.

You then turn the first right down that street and you should walk through the open air Woolwich Market.

Towards the end of the Market you should see some big brick what looks like an old entrance into something. This is infact the original entrance into the Royal Arsenal.

Go past this and you will see a busy raod and some traffic lights cross the road here and right slap back in front of you is Woolwich Arsenal.

Walk through the main gates and you will see lots of old buildings. The Brass Foundry is the one on your left and has a large black door as a side entrance.

Knock the door and they will answer. You then have to sign in and the annoying thing is you have to leave there for lunch and then go back if your there all day like I was.

Usually they only allow one person in each day so you then work in their office and they just bring stuff out to you as when you ask.

Also don't forget to take your form!!!

They can provide copies of plans and things there on the day or to order later. Photo's through the NMM you have to order and like the IWM they are expensive.

Here's a photo I took. This is the actual building known as the Brass Foundry. The office you will work in is those 3 windows on the left.

You won't actually see it like this as this photo is taken facing the way you come in.

You also won't go in that door on the photo the door is around the side and on the left of the photo

bengtsson · Post by **bengtsson** » Mon May 22, 2006 1:26 pm

Lozza1981 wrote:Bob I took the train and I went from Tower Bridge which is a major over and underground station.
the way you come in.

Was the train an LRT, or is it a regular rail line? Been awhile since I've been at Tower Bridge station. Sounds like it will be an adventure at any rate. Thanks for the directions. I will have to maybe print out a London map from the map site.

Bob B.

Laurence Batchelor · Post by **Laurence Batchelor** » Mon May 22, 2006 1:31 pm

Bob I phoned them before I went and they told me the directions over the phone before I went.

Also download something free like goggle earth where you can zoom into street level and print your own map.

Once you get to the station which is by train not tube its only 2mins walk from their entrance to Woolwich Arsenal.

If you have enough time they may even post you a map and directions, I'm sure there's stuff on there website???

bengtsson · Post by **bengtsson** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:27 pm

Lozza1981 wrote:Bob I phoned them before I went and they told me the directions over the phone before I went.

Also download something free like goggle earth where you can zoom into street level and print your own map.

Once you get to the station which is by train not tube its only 2mins walk from their entrance to Woolwich Arsenal.

If you have enough time they may even post you a map and directions, I'm sure there's stuff on there website???

Yes, I will look into the google earth site, sounds helpful. I just checked rail links. It looks like for me, it would be Charing Cross-Woolwich Arsenal or London Bridge-Woolwich Arsenal. On Southeastern Railways. No train change if I take the tube to London Bridge and jump on the Southeastern train there. Thanks for the help. I hope I find some photos worth the cost. Yes, there are costly! Gotta be real good, to lay our that kind of money.

Bob B,

Laurence Batchelor · Post by **Laurence Batchelor** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:46 pm

Bob Google earth is a free program you can download its not a site,

try here you can zoom to street level over most of the world after you downlaod and install its damn handy!

http://earth.google.com/download-earth.html