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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:42 pm 
Good news for everyone.
The law has saved our cultural heritage.
And once again, the Pirates have lost their "treasure" ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-1 ... spain.html


Last edited by henry4 on Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:09 pm 
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"Cultural heritage", that's it. With all the silver that has been recovered, the world will get once again a sound proof of the Spanish ruthless exploitation of latin America :heh:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:36 am 
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This was a very interesting action. Britain was not at war with Spain but Spain was about to declare war and needed these funds to prosecute it.

Three other frigates were captured and the captains of the British frigates became rich although the rules of prize money were not applied so the state got most of the treasure.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:10 am 
Secondo wrote:
"Cultural heritage", that's it. With all the silver that has been recovered, the world will get once again a sound proof of the Spanish ruthless exploitation of latin America :heh:


The term "Latin America" ​​is not correct in this context. The correct term is Spanish America. Italy and France (latin countries) has no relation with South America.

Regarding the human exploitation, and all those "MADE IN HOLLYWOOD" topics:
This ship was carrying money (coins), no minerals. It's very different. The money was legally owned by merchants, bankers, taxpayers, etc.. As evidenced by the fact that they were all legally compensated by the insurance then.

With regard to british attack, only clarify:
The <Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes> (Our Lady of Mercy) was sailing as merchant ship, not as warship.
She was sunk in peacetime by a British warship that shot her in the store of ammunition. There were passengers on board (women and children), who died in the explosion. The names of these passengers are knowed and their families were active part during this trial.

Regarding sacking the wreck by the salvage companie:
From a legal standpoint, the ship was never abandoned by the crew, so it is considered that the wreck is a spanish property. The salvage company Odyssey violated international law recovering the coins without permission (which is an act of piracy) and with clandestine procedures.
Fortunately they were denounced and condemned. Thanks to the Florida courts (which have long experience in these matters) it has been able to prevent the smuggling of items of historical value.

The next days, the ultimate destination of this heritage will be the Naval Museum of Madrid, always open to those who wish to visit it.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:08 pm 
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henry4 wrote:
The term "Latin America" ​​is not correct in this context. The correct term is Spanish America. Italy and France (latin countries) has no relation with South America.


Spanish America....really!?!?! I wonder since when was Brazil a former Spanish colony (which actually represents alone half the South America in area)? About your so called "cultural heritage" that was saved from those "evil pirates"...yes, that "cultural heritage" that you kindly took away from those civilizations the Spanish decimated in South America. Filipvs, or whatever your name is (in this case Henry the 4th of England?), be proud of your citizenship and your country if you wish but be careful when stepping on glass when talking of cultural heritage and piracy-looting acts....

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:35 pm 
Filipe Ramires wrote:
... but be careful when stepping on glass when talking of cultural heritage and piracy-looting acts....


Possibly there are people here who think that a private company, headquartered on Wall Street, can plunder the archaeological heritage of the world, simply because they have millions of dollars to spend on lawyers and image campaigns.

But I think that selling stolen archaeological objects on E-Bay is not an honorable activity. The law says clearly that it is a crime. The salvage companies like ODYSSEY know the law, but they violate it because they are "pirates".

With this court decision in Florida, the impunity of these pirates has come to an end.
This is an excellent new and I see no reason to insult the country that was victim of a crime and that defended their interests in court, in completely legal and transparent way.

In the nineteenth century, there was also a trial for the illegal attack to Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes. The Royal Navy was found guilty of piracy, and Britain forced to compensate the families of the victims. This was the first and only case of a navy condemned for piracy.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:46 am 
[quote="henry4"]
Possibly there are people here who think that a private company, headquartered on Wall Street, can plunder the archaeological heritage of the world, simply because they have millions of dollars to spend on lawyers and image campaigns.
[/quote]

Wow that was close !

I was begining to think I was going to make it all the way through this thread before reading about something that could be blamed on the US !
Scaaary !


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:03 am 
It is not my intention to offend any yuppie...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:59 am 
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henry4 wrote:
In the nineteenth century, there was also a trial for the illegal attack to Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes. The Royal Navy was found guilty of piracy, and Britain forced to compensate the families of the victims. This was the first and only case of a navy condemned for piracy.


Perhaps so but taking gold and silver, with slave work, in the South America Spanish colonies is to be considered a noble activity? And even more "celebrating" the way you are that Spain got this one and the so called archeological findings are going to Madrid instead of going back to where they belong or to the people who actually they were taken from?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:06 am 
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he's the critter from caddyshack. you... just... can't... get... rid... of... him...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:55 pm 
The pirates today have TV channels, and dress and speak lies as profesional politicians normally do.
The image has changed, but they are the same thieves.
So we must remain alert!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dBnXokGpY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QusAQwam ... re=related


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:23 pm 
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Oh we are alert. To the troll's that is!!!!! :bash_2:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:53 pm 
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henry4 wrote:
Good news for everyone.
The law has saved our cultural heritage.
And once again, the Pirates have lost their "treasure" ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-1 ... spain.html


very very interesting .....so now that we all are in the willing to save our cultural heritage will be very nice if the spanish government will return all the stolen treasure in century of colonialism and domination around the world ......and the list is very very long .


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:20 pm 
Daniele wrote:
very very interesting .....so now that we all are in the willing to save our cultural heritage will be very nice if the spanish government will return all the stolen treasure in century of colonialism and domination around the world ......and the list is very very long .


It is not Spain who decides what is legal or not,
ONLY THE LAW

This is the main difference between a civilazed society and a society of pirates and thieves.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:43 pm 
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It is not Spain who decides what is legal or not,
ONLY THE LAW

This is the main difference between a civilazed society and a society of pirates and thieves.[/quote]

i dont think the Maya will agree with you ...and with them Philipino or other country looted and devastated by your Law abiding spanish


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:05 pm 
Daniele wrote:
i dont think the Maya will agree with you ...


The Maya may agree or not. It's their problem.
The law is impartial.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:51 am 
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How sad that anyone would claim that the cultural heritage of a nation is "receiver of stolen property"


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:16 am 
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Not intending to country bash or anything but it has always got my goat that the British empire is always held up as an example of the evils of colonialism when there has been far worse, such as the Belgians in the Congo or the Spanish everywhere that they went.

I may be a little sensitive to it or biased even been a Brit myself but the British empire while not been completely innocent seems positively benign by comparison.

One of my other strong interests is classical history and due to this I collect ancient Greek and Roman coins so lets just say my views on cultural patrimony laws are less than positive. But in this case if there was any genuine justice in the world the South American country where this "treasure" originated would have had the succesfull claim.

Adrian

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:02 am 
interstaterr wrote:
How sad that anyone would claim that the cultural heritage of a nation is "receiver of stolen property"


According That theory ...
USA, in its entirety, is a stolen property. But their owners were exterminated and can no longer claim. The same is true of Canada, Australia and Singapore.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:17 am 
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henry4 wrote:
interstaterr wrote:
How sad that anyone would claim that the cultural heritage of a nation is "receiver of stolen property"


According That theory ...
USA, in its entirety, is a stolen property. But their owners were exterminated and can no longer claim. The same is true of Canada, Australia and Singapore.


Don't forget to add everywhere Spain colonised in central and southern America to that list!

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