Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[Mark McKinnis]

The question I have about the Notch is when did Tico and Hanna lose it? Tico took damage in Jan of 1945 and had to return stateside so I would assume it was eliminated there but I cannot find any pics or documentation to support that. I am not sure when Hanna lost hers either. I am looking to do Ticonderoga in Nov '44 so I think that she still had the notch then.


Thoughts?


MM

[Dick J]

Tico lost the notch and had the forward end of the flightdeck lengthened prior to leaving the east coast. The after end was lengthened during her repairs in '45. Hanna appears to have lost the notch during repairs in early '45, but seems to have retained the short deck.

[ratical9128]

is anatomy of the ship "intrepid" the best chance i have of hanger bay shots and drawings?i have 5 other books already,but nothing seems to show the inside.just getting ready to start my 350 yorky.

[phic]

Hey,

I'm planning on buying the Trumpeter 1/700 USS Essex CV-9 + the FLyhawk PE-set...are there any known problems (Fitting etc) with this kit?

Thanks.

Phil

[Tracy White]

is anatomy of the ship "intrepid" the best chance i have of hanger bay shots and drawings?i have 5 other books already,but nothing seems to show the inside.just getting ready to start my 350 yorky.

No photos, but it does have deck-by-deck drawings that will help with the placement of details. What ship are you doing?

[ratical9128]

i'm doing the yorktown after her 44 refit,still cant find a straight answer on aircraft type and numbers.any help is appreciated!

[Tracy White]

Give me a month. "After her '44 refit" covers something like three air groups.

[Timmy C]

And by "give me a month" Tracy means a month in Yorktown's life, not a month now for Tracy to dig up the info

[keithhufnagel]

Yorktown CV-10 airgroups were as follows 'after' her fall 44' refit: Air Group 3, 5 November 44' thru 25 February 45', Air Group 9, 18 March thru 9 June 45', and Air Group 88, 10 July thru 15 August 45'. In late 44' the mix was 54F, 24B, and 18T. In 45' the mix was 73F, 15B, and 15T. (that's fighters, bombers, and torpedo planes) Hopes this helps.

[Cliffy B]

This info comes from Stefan Terzibaschitsch's "Aircraft Carriers of the US Navy". I don't know how accurate it is so take it with a grain of salt for all intents and purposes. I don't when in 1944 the refit you're talking about occurs so here's what he has listed for 1944-45. Here goes!

USS Yorktown (CV-10) Squadron Listings:

Jan-Feb 1944:
CVG-5
VF-5 (36 F6Fs)
VB-5 (36 SBDs + 1 F6F)
VT-5 (18 TBFs)
Total: 91
TG-58.1: Marshall Islands

Feb 1944:
CVG-5
VF-5 (36 F6Fs)
VFN-76 (4 F6F-3N)
VB-5 (36 SBDs + 1 F6F)
VT-5 (18 TBFs)
Total: 95
TG-58.1: Truk

May 1944:
CVG-1
VF-1 (39 F6Fs)
VFN-77 (5 F6F-3N)
VB-1 (31 SBDs/SB2Cs)
VT-1 (18 TBF/TBMs)
Total: 93
Bonin and Yap Islands

June 1944:
CVG-1
VF-1 (42 F6Fs)
VFN-77 (4 F6F-3Ns)
VB-1 (4 SBDs + 40 SB2Cs)
VT-1 (17 TBF/TBMs)
Total: 107
TG-58.1: Philippines

Jan 1945:
CVG-3
VF-3 (48 F6Fs + 6 F6F-5Ps)
VB-3 (24 SB2Cs)
VT-3 (18 TBMs)
Total: 96
TG-38.1 Liberation of the Philippines

March-April 1945:
CVG-9
VF-9 (40 F6F/5N/5Ps)
VB-9 (15 SB2Cs)
VBF-9 (33 F6Fs)
VT-9 (7 TBMs)
Total: 95
TG-58.4 Japanese Islands

June 1945:
CVG-88
VF-88 (30 F6Fs + 6 F6F-5Ns + 3 F6F-5Ps)
VB-88 (15 SB2Cs)
VBF-9 (37 FGs)
VT-88 (15 TBMs)
Total: 106
TG-58.4 Japanese Islands

His book ranges from very thorough to a bit vague but includes all of the air groups/wings for CV-1-71 from 1923-1988. Its a decent reference book to have and have plenty of detailed photos and line drawings, more than I've seen in a lot of other books.

Hope that helps,
-Mike

[Tracy White]

I can give a more precise breakdown for paint purposes (for example, F6F-3s were *usually* in tri-color and the -5s in glossy sea blue, so a mixed airgroup would have both. It did happen regularly), but as Timmy said, I need the month, week, or action you're looking to depict.

Keith: good to know you're still around. Chris tried to drop you a line a month or so ago and never heard back.

[keithhufnagel]

Hello Tracy and Chris!. . . 'I'm always around' and keeping an eye out for Yorktown. I did get a new e-mail address though. Now I'm at k.hufnagel9302@insightbb.com. Sorry Chris I've been so busy that your notification must have slipped through the cracks. Anyway. . . Air Groups on Yorktown were 5,1,3,9, and 88(during WWII). She re-entered combat on November 5, 1944 in the Luzon campaign with Air Group 3 which she had picked up at Pearl upon her return to the Pacific. Air Groups late in the war were a conglomeration of paint schemes. Even spare parts were cobbled together with old and new colors.The later in the war you go however the overall 'glossy' dark sea blue seems to become dominant. I know Air group 88 was in glossy blue and carried the "RR" designation. I'll have to check more on Air Group 9. Hope this helps.

[Tracy White]

Here's a snapshot of Yorktown's air group in March, 1945 as an example of the details I have and how mish-mashed an air group could be:

1945 March
CVG-3
VB-3 SB2C-4 15
VF-3 F6F-3 1
VF-3 F6F-5 29
VF-3 F6F-5E 1
VF-3 F6F-5N 4
VF-3 F6F-5P 2
VBF-3 F6F-5 36
VT-3 TBM-1C 8
VT-3 TBM-3 7

The solitary F6F-3 was probably tri-color, all of the -5's would be Glossy Sea Blue (GSB). -1C Avengers in tri, -3s in GSB

[keithhufnagel]

Hello Tracy, my info says Air Group 3 departed Feb. 25. Maybe you could also list Air Group 9 in detail for March, that's the group my info is most sketchy with. Thank you for passing along my info to Chris. . . and I hear he's working on a "Gambier Bay".

[Tracy White]

Hi Keith... doubtful; according to DANFS:

The landings on Iwo Jima went forward on 19 February, and Yorktown aircraft began support missions over the island on the 20th. Those missions continued until the 23d at which time Yorktown cleared the Bonins to resume strikes on Japan proper. She arrived at the launch point on the 25th and sent two raids aloft to bomb and strafe airfields in the vicinity of Tokyo. On the 26th, Yorktown aircrewmen conducted a single sweep of installations on Kyushu before TG 58.4 began its retirement to Ulithi. Yorktown reentered the anchorage at Ulithi on 1 March.

March 17th (same date as my CVG-3 info above) info for CVG-9:
CVG-9: Ulithi
VB-9 SB2C-3 9
VBF-9 - shown as attached, but no aircraft assigned
VF-9 F6F-5 62
VF-9 F6F-5N 3
VF-9 F6F-5P 4
VT-9 TBM-1C 8
VT-9 TBM-3 3
There are times in the records when the VBFs show with no aircraft and the VF has double... annoying but not really an issue for modelers for the most part.

[keithhufnagel]

Hello Tracy, you could be right, my source was Warships Data 5 and it has several suspect captions and listings. On a similar note however I have noticed in my Camouflage Research for Yorktown that several photos commonly used state that Yorktown received her (first) Ms33-10a 'paint job' at Majuro in May of 1944. Using various sources including yours listed above, apparently Yorktown was only there for two days 'in May' (May 4-6). Not knowing the time frame on how long it takes to 'paint an Essex Class ship into pattern' I was wondering was it possible to do this in those two days or was Yorktown painted at Pearl as I suspect or in April (6-9)or June (3-6)? This has always bugged me. What are your thoughts if any. Thanks

[Tracy White]

Two days for a ship that big would quite an undertaking at Majuro! My main source for the softer history is "The Fighting Lady" by Clark Reynolds. The May 4-6 Majuro stop is mentioned on page 134, but there is no mention of painting, just some aircraft transfers (SBDs to Marine units on Majuro, etc.) and the pickup of Japanese POWs. The Majuro stop was just on the way to Pearl Harbor to swap air groups, so I tend to think they would wait on a paint job until after such a stop.

The Pearl Harbor visit was from May 11th to May 27, with a three-day cruise for the new air group to refresh. Page 138 states, "After the maneuvers, the Yorktown spent ten days of 'availability' in the shipyard at Pearl getting minor repairs and a completely new 'razzle dazzle' camouflage paint job to give her the appearance of a battleship at a distance." A photo on Page 136 has a photo of her in dazzle dated June 5th, location Majuro, with a pretty fresh looking paint job to me.

Not proof, but I wasn't able to find any documentation on her in the Pearl Harbor Navy Yard files stored at San Francisco NARA, so it's the best I've got at this point.

[ratical9128]

thanks for the aircraft help.did she keep her dazzle through the end of the war?and who makes a good set of mk turrets for the island?

[Tracy White]

Page 243 OF "The Fighting Lady" says March 31st for a repaint into Ms 21. I haven't found anything at NARA that refuts or confirms this, so I could be wrong.

[keithhufnagel]

I beleive you confirm my thoughts that Yorktown was first painted in Ms 33-10a at Pearl in May, not Majuro. Minor point to be sure, but the distinctive look she carried throughout 'most' of the war deserves an accurate clarification. (Especially since it has bugged me for so long.) Thanks! . . . Oh by the way. . . how long it takes to paint an Essex Class Carrier into a 'Razzle Dazzle' pattern? Thanks again. P.S. When is your Essex book coming out.