Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[Tracy White]

I can't give you the figures on repaint, as they're not covered in any of the documentation I've found. It generally will list the percentage of any job (not just paint) but not the hours that went into it. These are just the "departure" reports, which listed all of the work done during an overhaul at the time of departure. There may be (and probably were) more detailed cost reports, but I've never seen them in the shipyard files I'm able to go through.

With regard to the Essex book... ahhh I wish I knew! There have been some teases, but the two main sticky points for me are a couple of ships (I've managed to cobble together enough photos to answer most questions, but I wouldn't be able to publish them, and it just seems wrong to leave, for example, Randolph almost completely unrepresented) and artwork. I'd like to do isometric drawings to show differences, but I'm no artist and am spending all my money on research trips still. There are some possibilities that I can't talk about right now, but we'll have to see how it goes. For now, I'm helping Pontos with their Essex sets, at least, so the info I have is still being put to good use. I'm also experimenting with airgroup information to see what formats work or how they can be tweaked to get more information out there in an intuitive format. I presume that if I work with a major publisher there will be some sort of graphic designer helping me with things like that, but on the other hand I have a definite idea of what I want to present and am not willing to go from encyclopedia to pamphlet, so I might have to go the self publishing route.

[keithhufnagel]

Hello Tracy, it might be an interesting to include in your book, a paragraph or brief pictorial series (with accurate captions)on the actual process of camo painting for these wonderful ships. I have always endeavored to seek out 'the process' info as well as the 'when' information. I hope you will think about that also. Please do not compromise on your publication efforts. You know noone wanted to publish Galileo, Darwin, Jane Austin, nor Sir Authur Conan Doyle because of their particulars as to how they wanted their works to be presented. In 'old nautical terms'. . . HOLD FAST. Best of luck and put me down for a hardcopy.

[Tracy White]

I have some photos of destroyers painting into MS 12 Mod, but nothing of the Essex class going into Dazzle. If I can I will... I'd like to find more photos, of course, but there also comes a time when you simply must get the thing done!

[Mark McKinnis]

I'm also experimenting with airgroup information to see what formats work or how they can be tweaked to get more information out there in an intuitive format.

I clicked on the link. What a treasure Trove of information!!!!

I like the way you did the Essex Charts for the airgroups. If you can do that for the other units of the class, well, that would be nothing less than unlocking the secrets of the Essex Class Modeling Universe!


I am doing a summer/fall 1944 CV-14 Ticonderoga now and I am just doing the whole airgroup in the tri-color scheme. I am speculating that it is acurate. With your work, someday I will know.

[Tracy White]

Mark, the air groups page is essentially my way of experimenting with formatting of information for a book... the plan is to have the equivalent for each ship, but more along the lines of the more-recently-completed CVL-22 chart, which folds in some history so that air group markings can be more easily determined for specific events in history. Of course, in the book I think I'll need to look at folding the ship overhauls and details into the same chart perhaps, or at least have a separate chart for that nearby for easy cross-referencing.

I've got Tico's air group information mostly compiled; let me know the month and year you're building her as and I'll list off types and color schemes.

[Mark McKinnis]

I am doing Tico with the "notch" in the flight deck so I think that is Summer/Fall 1944. I believe that they removed the notch at Pearl Harbor before she made her first deployment so I guess it would be between commissioning and arrival at Pearl.

[Tracy White]

Actually, looking through my notes, I see that Tico did her shakedown with Air Group 80: VF-80 was F6F-5s so the Hellcats are all Glossy Sea Blue and no Tricolor. The Avengers and Helldivers were tri-color though.

[Mark McKinnis]

Hi Tracy,

Thanks for the insight.

[Mark McKinnis]

Hi Tracy,

Here is what I have for the rest of my Essex Class WWII builds to be:

1944 Hornet (Jun 1944) MS-33/3a F-6F## SB2C## TBF ##
1945 Franklin MS-21 F-4U# SB2C# TBF#
1944 Ticonderoga MS-33/10a F-6F# SB2C## TBF##
1944 Bunkerker Hill (Jun 1944) MS-32/6a F-6F# SB2C## TBF##
1945 Wasp MS-33/10a F-6F# F-4U# SB2C# TBF#
1945 Bennington MS-22 F-6F# F-4U# SB2C# TBF#

# Overall Glossy Blue
## Tri-color

I think that I got Hornet, Franklin,Ticonderoga, Wasp and Bennington correct. I would guess that the Fighters on Bunker Hill are Overall Glossy Blue and the Helldivers and Avengers were Tri-color for 1944 but I was wondering if you could check my work.

I was also wondering if Wasp had Corsairs aboard while wearing MS-33/10a into 1945? I wanted to capture that combination. The only photos I can find show Corsairs after her Jun 1945 refit into the MS-21 scheme.

[Tracy White]

That's a lot of bird farms, even in 700th scale!

Give me the approximate months you want for each and I'll give you air group composition. There were a lot of changes over the course of a year, so it's hard to give a good answer without narrowing it down.

*Edit* I see you added some months after I hit "post" give me a minute and I'll have that for you

[Tracy White]

OK, Hornet should be all Tricolor. I checked the reports for June 20 and July 4th and the composition is the same:

Air Group 2
VB-2 SB2C-1C 33
VF-2 F6F-3 37
VT-2 TBF/M-1C 19
VF(N)-76 F6F-3N 4

Franklin in March of 1945 right before the bombing:

Air Group 5
VB-5 SB2C-4E 15
VF-5 F4U-FG-1D 32
VF-5 F6F-5N 4
VF-5 F6F-5P 2
VMF-214 F4U-1D 24
VMF-452 FG-1D 12
VT-5 TBM-3 15

Note the six Hellcats and that I have the deck spotting at the time of the bomb posted on Plate III of this damage report.

Wasp had 36 Marine Corsairs assigned starting in February of 1945; at that time Airgroup was:

Air Group 81
CVG-81 VF-81 F6F-5 83
CVG-81 VF-81 F6F-5N 4
CVG-81 VF-81 F6F-5P 4
CVG-81 VT-81 TBM-1C 15
CVG-81 VMF-216 F4U-1D 18
CVG-81 VMF-217 F4U-1D 18

Note that the total for this is 142 aircraft! The following week's report lists the same, but right after that it drops down to 55 Hellcats, for a more believable 106. I haven't made the time to try and verify or discredit that high number yet.

[Mark McKinnis]

OK, Hornet should be all Tricolor. I checked the reports for June 20 and July 4th and the composition is the same:

Air Group 2
VB-2 SB2C-1C 33
VF-2 F6F-3 37
VT-2 TBF/M-1C 19
VF(N)-76 F6F-3N 4

Franklin in March of 1945 right before the bombing:

Air Group 5
VB-5 SB2C-4E 15
VF-5 F4U-FG-1D 32
VF-5 F6F-5N 4
VF-5 F6F-5P 2
VMF-214 F4U-1D 24
VMF-452 FG-1D 12
VT-5 TBM-3 15

Note the six Hellcats and that I have the deck spotting at the time of the bomb posted on Plate III of this damage report.

Wasp had 36 Marine Corsairs assigned starting in February of 1945; at that time Airgroup was:

Air Group 81
CVG-81 VF-81 F6F-5 83
CVG-81 VF-81 F6F-5N 4
CVG-81 VF-81 F6F-5P 4
CVG-81 VT-81 TBM-1C 15
CVG-81 VMF-216 F4U-1D 18
CVG-81 VMF-217 F4U-1D 18

Note that the total for this is 142 aircraft! The following week's report lists the same, but right after that it drops down to 55 Hellcats, for a more believable 106. I haven't made the time to try and verify or discredit that high number yet.

Muey Bueno!!!

I am assuming the Wasp and Franklin's aircraft were all Glossy Blue by then.

That is great info. many thanks!

[Tracy White]

TBF's seem to be more present in tri-color later anything else. I have a picture of Wasp in August 1945 with the collapsed forward deck and there are three avengers visible.... two are definitely glossy sea blue and one LOOKS like it might have a light underbelly, but with the angle and distance it's really hard to tell. I wish I had a better copy of this photo to look at =/

[Mark McKinnis]

That would be a great dio red!

Tracy, that photo appears to be all gloss blue aircraft overall but you're correct on needing a little better detailed photo. It is hard to tell with the shadows.

[Mark McKinnis]

Hey Tracy,


Do you have any airwing info for Shangri La? I am planning a 1/350 Shangri La using the Trumeter Ticonderoga. Winter/Spring 1945.

Thanks,

MM

[Tracy White]

I haven't finished up her airwing notes yet, but I should be able to post something later tonight. Should be mostly later aircraft, glossy sea blue, but I'll get you the particulars.

[Tracy White]

I only started her in February, since I've really only been assembling info on the ships in the war zone at this point.

1945 February (San Diego to Pearl Harbor)
CVG-85
CAG-85 F4U-1D
VB-85 SB2C-4E X 15
VBF-85 F4U-1D X 36
VF-85 F4U-1D X 30
VF-85 F6F-5P X 2
VT-85 TBM-3 X 15

[Mark McKinnis]

So Shangri La cruised with only Corsairs then. Interesting. I am looking to build 3 1/350 Essex Class ships for the collection. I am doing Essex circa 1943 with the Hellcats, Dauntless, and Avengers. Then I wanted a Hellcat, Helldiver, and avenger Airwing, and another with Corsairs.


I am not sure if I would want Hellcats and Corsiars or just Corsairs. I may do the Bunker Hill instead of Shangri La to use Starfighter Decals CVG-84 set to meet my Corsair Air Group requirement which would look really nice. Then I would do the long hull as a standard Hellcat/Helldiver/Avenger Air Group. Now to pick which Long Hull????

[Tracy White]

No, actually, my bad. I posted that in a rush and meant to say that I would get her shakedown air group for you if any different as well as the one she actually went to war with. She swapped air groups before going to battle. I should have that later tonight.

[Mark McKinnis]

Hi Tracy,

No Sweat. I think I have a plan. Maybe you can check my homework here:

Essex MS-21 1943
CVG-9
VF-9 (36) F6F Tri-Color
VB-9 (36) SBD Tri-Color
VT-9 (18) TBF Tri-Color

Ticonderoga MS-33/10a Fall/Winter1944
CVG-80
VF-80 (73) F6F Overall Blue
VFN-105 (6) F6F-5N Overall Blue
VB-80 (22) SB2C Tri-Color
VT-80 (16) TBM Tri-Color


Bunker Hill MS-21 April 1945
CVG-84
VF-84 (27) F4U Overall Blue
VF-84 (4) F6F-5N Overall Blue
VF-84 (6) F6F-5P Overall Blue
VMF-221 (18) F4U Overall Blue
VMF-451 (18) F4U Overall Blue
VB-84 (15) SB2C Overall Blue
VT-84 (15) TBM Overall Blue




I got these figures from the Terzibaschitsch book. It looks about right except I have a hard time believing that VF-80 cruised with 79 Hellcats! Due to cost considerations, mine probably won't!!