Calling all Benson-class & Gleaves-class DD fans

[NYFROG]

Hello Everyone...
This is my first post on here... My great uncle Ed, who was an incredible man served on the Eberle, DD430. He passed away in 1995 while I was in training in the Navy. Anyway we were very close and he meant the world to me. The other day I was given a couple of his old photo albums and one of them contained pictures he had while on the Eberle. Since thery are actual pictures I gotta scan them and I'll post them up here asap. If anyone would like them for there build I can text them to you if you like just PM me. I'm currently building the Dragon Buchanan 1/350 kit and obviously turning her into the Eberle. Well let me know and thanks for all the help you guys have given all of us on here....Tim

[Rick E Davis]

I look forward to seeing your Great Uncle's photos of EBERLE. Are the photos dated?

[NYFROG]

Most of them are dated.. Its pretty cool actually because because you can see the bond these guys had with each other. They were all pretty much teenagers going to War. There are pictures of the Eberle and also a nice shot of the USS Ludlow. I think my uncle has a scanner so I am gonna get them up asap. Along with the pictures I have his military i.d., his certificate for crossing the equator and all kinds of awesome memorabillia.

[DJF]

I am considering building the 1/350 Dragon Laffey kit as USS Bailey in March 1943. From what I have read on this site, Bailey carried two twin 40mms and four 20 mms at that time. My question is what was the configuration of the 40 mm deck? Was it like the deck in the 1945 Buchanan kit or was it a modified form of the deck in the Laffey kit? Also, was the searchlight located over the stack trunking? Hope you experts can help.
Thanks,
Doug

[Dick J]

I am sure that Rick Davis will pop up with the actual photos, but DD-492 didn't quite match either config in the period you referenced. As commissioned photos show the 1.1" gun. By August '42, she had 2 twin 40MM installed. The bulwarks at that time show that the individual 40MM tubs for both mounts were complete, except for the interior arcs where the two tubs faced each other (as on the '45 kit). The director bulwarks were similar to the original config, in that they were flat-plate from the 40MM tubs to the arcs for the directors. However, these bulwarks were not quite as high as those on the 40MM tubs themselves. Interestingly enough, the height of the forward arcs of the 40MM tubs, from where the flat-plate segment of the director bulwark intersected the tub to the forward inboard edge, was somewhere in between the height of the rest of the tub and that of the director bulwark. Also, in the photos that I have, no directors were yet fitted. By July of '43, she had the tub arrangement of the '45 Buchannan kit. In August of '42, the searchlight was between the two director positions. By the end of the July '43 refit, it was in the position of the original-design after torpedo tube pedestal. One other thing was that in the July '43 refit, the casing for the after stack was modified, something seen on several of the repeat Bensons in the '43-'44 timeframe.

[Rick E Davis]

Dick gave a very good summary of what BAILEY looked like in September 1942 and after her MINY overhaul/repair in April-July 1943. We don't know what if any changes were made between September 1942 and April 1943 dates. The three extra 20-mm guns appear to have been added at MINY based on arrival photo in April 1943 and the post overhaul photos taken at MINY (see the Navsource.org images for BAILEY (DD-492) for the damage photo in April 1943, which only shows the forward part of the ship). Small things like arrangement of rafts and added senors are quite possible.

... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/492.htm ...

By the way, the first three photos below the Navy Yard Associates illustration (which by the way is WRONG for BAILEY at ANY point in her career) were NOT taken in March 1943.

First Navsource image is from about September-October 1943.

Second Navsource image is from 19 July 1942.

Third Navsource image is from December 1943.



Here are the three images of BAILEY I have from her August 1942 refit when the two twin 40-mm mounts were installed in place of the quad 1.1-in mounts. The Mk 51 directors were installed prior to her seeing action in the Aleutian Islands (99.999999999999999999% sure of it), most likely during her stop at San Francisco in mid-September 1942.








BAILEY departed for the Pacific shortly after the last photo was taken. From BAILEY's War Record from her Reunion website:

Post shakedown availability was granted at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, New York from 15 August to 3 September. On 18 August Commander Ralph S. Riggs, U.S.N., reported aboard with his staff and hoisted his pennant as Commander Destroyer Squadron Fourteen.

On 3 September the Bailey departed for Canal Zone and on 7 September arrived at Cristobal. The following day the ship passed through the canal and became a unit of the Pacific Fleet.

Departure for San Diego, California was made on 9 September. Following arrival at that port on 16 September orders were received to proceed to San Francisco, California, for further routing to Alaskan waters. Task Group 94.7 (Commander Destroyer Squadron Fourteen, OTC) composed of the U.S.S. Bailey and U.S.S. Bridge (AF1), departed San Francisco, California on 22 September and arrived at Kodiak, Alaska, 28 September.

[DJF]

Thanks Dick J and Rick. This gives me what I need to know to model Bailey. I am constantly amazed at the knowledge and resources available on this site!
Thanks again,
Doug

[JeffHead]

Jeroen,

Below is the sketch I made from a source I can't share. This shows the approximate locations of the 50-cal MGs on the aft deckhouse (upper drawing) and where two 20-mm guns replaced two 50-cal MGs (lower insert), the drawing I went by didn't have any dimensions, but I think in 1/350 or 1/700 scale this would be close enough. I don't know where exactly the 20-mm was mounted nor where bulwarks end so I "guessed". The 20-mm gun had a larger working circle than the 50-cal MG, so the "tub" was larger. If anything, from the photo of MONSSEN in May 1942, the 20-mm bulwark should extend outboard (and the foundation for the 20-mm gun moved outboard as well) than what I show here. In the photos it appears that the revised tub "centerline" was moved forward slightly and the new bulwark was closer to the forward most 50-cal MG bulwark compared to the more or less equal spacing seen with the all MG configuration and extended outboard almost as far as the aft most MG bulwark. Lucky with the LIVERMORE kit, I think the existing 20-mm gun locations on the aft deckhouse are in about (if not the same) locations as shown in my sketch. So, construct some smaller working circle diameter 50-cal MG bulwarks and dry fit them to the aft deckhouse to see what looks best. My best guess would be that the Ready Service Ammo Boxes (RS on the drawing) for the 20-mm guns would have replaced the set of four boxes for the 50-cal MGs on the centerline directly inboard from the 20-mm guns. For the two 20-mm guns forward of the bridge, the LIVERMORE kits 20-mm gun locations should be fine.

Rick, would this configuration also work for the Doolittle Raid Gleaves?

I am in the process of building 1/350 scale models of the CV-8, USS Hornet (Trumpeter), CV-6, USS Enterprise (modifying it from the trumpeter Hornet model) the CA-44 USS Vincennes (A New Orleans Class Cruiser) to be modified from the Trumpeter CA-38, USS San Francisco model, and two Gleaves Class DDs, DD-435, the USS Grayson (which survived the war) and DD-436, USS Monssen, both of these from the Dragon DD-429 USS Livermore model from Trumpeter. That will give me a really decent grouping of 5 of the 16 vessels included in the Doolittle task force.

I have already completed the Hornet, and have just purchased the two Gleaves Class DDs and already have the San Francisco.

Will the layout you mention for the Midway Gleaves work for the two Gleaves I am contemplating for the Doolittle Raid?

[Rick E Davis]

Well, yes the configuration would be the same for the DesDiv 22 that went to the Pacific with HORNET and for that matter all of the early GLEAVES class except for PLUNKETT. The question is, when did they start to replace the 50-cal MGs on the DesDiv 22 destroyers with 20-mm guns? My guess is that the 20-mm guns were in place for the raid as seen in the photos taken a couple of months afterwards (where they would have been replaced is the real issue ... was there time to do so?). But ... I DON'T know for sure.

[JeffHead]

Well, yes the configuration would be the same for the DesDiv 22 that went to the Pacific with HORNET and for that matter all of the early GLEAVES class except for PLUNKETT. The question is, when did they start to replace the 50-cal MGs on the DesDiv 22 destroyers with 20-mm guns? My guess is that the 20-mm guns were in place for the raid as seen in the photos taken a couple of months afterwards (where they would have been replaced is the real issue ... was there time to do so?). But ... I DON'T know for sure.

Thanks, Rick, I will go ahead and use the configuration noted on your sketch. I really appreciate it.

On the thread about CA-38, USS San Francisco, I am asking a similar question about CA-44, USS Vinennes. She was a cruisre also on the raid and I have Trumpeter's CA-38 San Francisco (same New Orleans class) but cannot fins info about the differences between the two in that time frima...so I asked the guys on that thread.

Thanks again.

Along with the Hornet Dolittle Raid, I am building modern Carrier stirke Groups as well. Here's my latest project in that area, the Trumpeter 1/350 scale PLA Navy Aircraft Carrier:

My Build and Review of Trumpeter's 1/350 scale PLA Navy Aircraft Carrier
http://www.jeffhead.com/modelbuilds/PRC-CV-01.htm

[Trevor W]

Hello everyone,
I was wondering if anybody knew how accurate of a mid 1944 USS Correy DD-463 I could get out of the dragon 1/700 Buchanan kit without much modification?
Thanks for any help

Trevor

[Rick E Davis]

Trevor,

The only 1/700 scale BUCHANAN kit is for 1945, but should work as a start for CORRY in 1944. The 1/700 scale BUCHANAN 1945 kit has plenty of optional parts that should have everything you need with minor modifications. BUCHANAN had the "rounded-face" to the 02 level deckhouse below the navigation bridge, whereas CORRY was completed with the "squared-off face" for this deckhouse level. I have not done a survey of the parts to know what else would need to be used or changed. CORRY had a yard period in March-April 1943 when the twin 40-mm mounts were installed. I have a photo of CORRY in March 1944 and it looks like she went through a few additional changes. But, I don't have any yard photos of her post those yard mods whenever they were done.

Check photos on CORRY's website ... http://www.uss-corry-dd463.com/ ... about as good a collection of images as there are on-line, to see what changes or mods to the kit's configuration are required.

[Angeliccypher]

Trevor,

There is an after market square bridge in 1/350 by Admiralty Model Works. I am not aware if they or another company have done the modification in 1/700 though.

[Rick E Davis]

CORRY (DD-463) isn't one of the Square-bridge GLEAVES class units.

[Angeliccypher]

BUCHANAN had the "rounded-face" to the 02 level deckhouse below the navigation bridge, whereas CORRY was completed with the "squared-off face" for this deckhouse level.

My apologies. I read that above and thought you meant the square bridge. Trevor, please disregard my previous.

[BillGorm]

I'm currently building Dragon's 1/350 scale USS Laffey and I have a question about the forward deckhouse. Was there low "one-bar" railing that ran around the curved front face of the deckhouse on either side of the turret? Does anyone have a clear photo of this area (if not of the Laffey, then a similar ship)?

[JeffHead]

I'm currently building Dragon's 1/350 scale USS Laffey and I have a question about the forward deckhouse. Was there low "one-bar" railing that ran around the curved front face of the deckhouse on either side of the turret? Does anyone have a clear photo of this area (if not of the Laffey, then a similar ship)?

Well, this picture from an earlier post on this thread is of the USS Bailey, DD-492:



It does show what appears to be a low, single bar railing around the deckhouse for the 2nd forward 5" gun on that vessel. The Laffey was a Benson Class, DD-459 commissioned on the 31 March, 1942, while the Bailey, also a Benson Class, was commissioned May 12 of the same year. Hope that helps.

[Timmy C]

I'm planning on doing Dragon's 1/700 1945 Livermore at Tokyo Bay later this year. Navsource photos indicate that she wore the "E" signage on at least her starboard side bridge. Anyone know if it was the same on the opposite side of the ship, and/or if a third one was forward-facing like on Buchanan?

(No, I haven't ditched the Turkish idea - that's for the other hull in the kit and when Loose Cannon's stone towers set comes out)

[drdoom1337]

If one were trying to do an Atlantic convy MS12 mod benson/gleaves, which kit is the best starting point? I believe all of the Dragon kits are of ships that primarily operated in the Pacific. I'm kind of leaning towards Edison.

[Rick E Davis]

Timmy,

I don't know for certain, but I would think that the "ID/Recognition" letters at Tokyo Bay 1945 would be done the same on all the destroyers. To me I would think both sides and front are logical. If it turns out that they weren't all there ... pop them off.

Dr Doom,

The LIVERMORE 1942 kit (1/350 scale) would be the best kit for an "Early-GLEAVES" (DD-444 or earlier) in Ms 12 or Ms 12 mod. Yes most of the DML BENSON-GLEAVES kits are "boxed" for Pacific Fleet units, but there were sisters of those units that operated in the Atlantic. Some of the Repeat-BENSON-GLEAVES units (DD-453 and after), were painted in Ms 12 mod. Only a couple of the Repeat units were painted Ms 12 mod while equipped with twin 40-mm mounts, the rest mostly had a single quad 1.1-in mount.

Any more info would be dependent on which unit you want to build.