Styrene models

[Neptune]

Hello guys,
Another "question" topic. As a forum serves to share knowledge, I suppose we can ask questions! I have gotten much help on the plans and Talwar model now.
So, after that stage I tried building it from Cardboard and paper, using the skin-on-frame method. It didn't work out as it should have, although I have not demolished or abandoned the model yet!
Yesterday I went to a shop (adress and info kindly provided by Klein Loewietje/Johan ) And bought some styrene. Of course I also saw the LHA build of Frank Ilse which was very useful too.
So now I want to start this tiny Talwar model. What do I need more for the finish? I have the styrene for both frames and narrower skin.

-What do you fill the gaps between the seperate plates with?
-Which wash to you put over it to give it the smooth looking finish? (and where to get that? Modelshop or just hobbyshop?)
-Which glue can you use for styrene? The normal kit-glue? Or CA, or other?
-Do you use a "nonius" (the thing that measures very accurately, when you put something in between) to make sure everything fits well, or do you just sand the frames if they are just slightly too large to fit on the bottom/waterline surface? It's a problem I encountered when using the thick cardboard, the frames were often not accurate enough and sanding cardboard is hard without desintegration of the cardboard...Same happens when you try to cut very narrow parts of it! I guess with styrene such things are possible?

There is a different Styrene method (Provided by Mac, with great results on his El Oro in the gallery) that makes a full hull of styrene by gluing several Styrene sheets on top of each other and then shaping the hull. It is of course only usefull for small models, but does anyone think it is possible to shape the hull with the flat sides of a Talwar? How would that be possible by sanding then?

Thanks for any help provided!

Roel

[ModelMonkey]

Here's what has worked for me but many methods will work.

-What do you fill the gaps between the seperate plates with? I use Squadron Green putty to fill any gaps but have heard Tamiya putty is better. I try to minimize gaps so that normal Testors liquid cement welds the parts together leaving no gap. I then lightly sand the joint to make the seam invisible.

-Which wash to you put over it to give it the smooth looking finish? (and where to get that? Modelshop or just hobbyshop?) I lightly sand the hull then spray automtive primer over it.

-Which glue can you use for styrene? The normal kit-glue? Or CA, or other? Testors liquid cement.

-Do you use a "nonius". No, I cut the parts slightly over size then carefully sand to fit using cheap emory boards, the inexpensive version of sanding sticks.

[Neptune]

Thanks, so no glue then.
What method do you use? Do you use skin on frame method? And do you use it in small scale models? I'm thinking of doing some modular build, given the small size of the ship I want to build, I think I will do some parts in full hull configuration and some part with frames and skin. Then join them together with glue or cement. Do you think it would work?

Regards
Roel

[ModelMonkey]

Hi Roel, sorry to take so long in answering your question!

IMHO, I think for larger models skin-on-frame is the way to go. For smaller models, carved block is probably the better technique.

I use wood for full hulls primarily because it is an easier medium to shape than styrene. But since wood doesn't look like steel, is porous and susceptible to warping caused by changes in humidity, I fiberglass the hull exterior. The main deck is styrene.

The one notable exception has been my 1/350 Scharnhorst. I used styrene to build the Scharnhorst's waterline hull because styrene there was no need to replicate the compound curves of the hull below the waterline and accuracy and symmetry were important.

I use styrene to build superstructures because superstructures generally are made with flat steel plate and styrene lends itself to making flat surfaces. Styrene comes in sheets, strips, tube and rod, the same components used in making real ship superstructures, Styrene looks like steel when finished and is plentiful and inexpensive.

I used both skin-on-frame and carved block techniques with good success. My 1/192 Missouri and 1/350 Scharnhorst are skin-on-frame. My 1/125 Fletcher is carved block.

Each technique has advantages and disadvantages. Carved block is more difficult to make accurate and symmetrical but sanding to shape is easier and fast, especially compound curves. Skin-on-frame is easier to make more accurate and symmetrical but the skin can be difficult to lay over compound curves.

I think with carving styrene block, I would start to rough out the shape using a Dremel moto-tool or something like it, then move on to sanding by hand using a sanding block, ultimately sanding by hand with sandpaper, sanding sticks and files for the fine areas.

Hope this opinion helps!

[commodore4]

HI , I have found if you scratch build in smaller scales you should adhere to the methods used by cardmodelers . build your keel (with a baseplate if it,s waterline) and when you get that done then take liquid cement and glue the sides to the bottom , frames and then put the deck on.I use this method in ALL my builds including commissions , as it is a better way to insure a straight and true hull and deck. This method is used in all scales I use too. Commodore4 P.S. I did a demo one time where I stood on top of an H.O. scale container ship hull as the client wanted to know how strong it would be if it was moved a lot! I weigh 190 plus.

[Timmy C]

Commodore, I know you mean well, but this thread was made in 2006. It serves little purpose to reply to such an old thread.

[Pieter]

But it is nice to see this again. Roel van de Velde's styrene models can be found in the gallery nowadays.

[DrPR]

It may be an old thread, but Neptune's original questions are still valid, and the answers may be helpful to new modelers. So dredging up these old threads can be useful for reviving interesting discussions.

Besides, look how far Neptune has come since 2006. That should be an inspiration for new modelers!

[commodore4]

I do ask for forgiveness.I usually answer a post without looking at the date it was posted "bad on me" but I know someone will read it if it,s still there so maybe someone will be helped with my little tidbits.I don,t think modeling has time limits.Look how many times the magazines go on about airbrushing ,superdetailing etc.Oh well I stand admonished!! commodore4

[Neptune]

Thanks for those replies guys. I did figure out the reply to most of these questions by now (yeah took about 4 years after all!). I do indeed build keel and frame, fill up the space between the frames (as that was one of the original questions), with scrap styrene sheet and over that I put the milliput filler (haven't found it outside any hobby and modelshop).
Building from scratch is just a step you have to take.
I did stop building solid hulls, like the original Talwar. It would be possible to do, with my current sanding techniques to achieve a good finish, but if you're not so trained in sanding etc, it's difficult to get a flat surface, always the risk of sanding away too much material and details too. It's a good method for small boat hulls, but nothing else I'm affraid.
Perhaps we can adapt this topic after all, with pictures and stuff, although you can still see some build topics in the scratchbuilding works in progress pages of this board.

[Guest]

As a kid I scratch built a lot of things using scrap sprue from my model kits. I made submarines, patrol boats and frigates by "welding" a frame of sprue using a soldering iron (I wrapped the barrel with wire to reduce the tip temperature some). I then filled in the sides and deck by melting more sprue pieces over the frame. I could actually get the plastic pretty smooth this way and only sanded a few really rough spots before painting. The burning plastic smelled awful, but my little homemade models were some of my favorites. I also built my own planes using sprue for the fuselage and card stock for wings and tails. It seemed that Carrier model kits never came with many planes back them (12-20), so I made my own. I made E-2 Hawkeyes, F-4 Phantoms, A-7's, A-3's, in my own quasi production line. The hardest part was filing down the sprue to the shape of the aircraft. Each one was individually filed by hand... if only I had something like a dremel tool back then! The wings and tails were traced from a master card for each type of aircraft and just cut out with craft knife from card stock. I used putty to form blended shapes between wings and fuselage, etc... I still have them in a box somewhere, guess I need to dig them out and post photos.