Calling all Russian submarine fans

[Cliffy B]

Hey guys, I've had a dio idea rattling around for awhile now involving an Oscar II circa mid 1980's and had some questions about them. I've looked through the thread and done some searches but I want to be sure first. The lower hull should be red correct? Are there any good shots of them in dry dock with a weathered lower hull? Also, if the boat is say, only a year old, how weathered would it be, IE how well did their anti-fouling paint work?

I'm using the 1/700 Hobby-Boss Oscar II kit, is there anything I should know about it? From what I've seen it seems to a good little kit.

Any and all help is appreciated as always,
-Mike

[Tom Dougherty]

You mean like these?
http://submarines.narod.ru/Substory/Fot ... f01vi.html
http://submarines.narod.ru/Substory/Fot ... f01vi.html

[Cliffy B]

Kind of but not that badly encrusted unless they corroded at a fast rate?

[Tom Dougherty]

I think that is sea growth (barnacles, algae etc.) and not hull corrosion. That would seem to indicate a fair amount of time in port and not in motion for these boats. Basically, the hull would be drydocked, cleaned with sandblasting, scrapped, and repainted.

[peppe]

may be this can help
ciao peppe

[Neptune]

Or these, after "normal" operation and alongside periods. Probably already hydroblasted.

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac14 ... 553617.png

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac14 ... 185903.png

[peppe]

one more photo (maybe oscar 1) from a russian forum
http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/atta ... tem=301336
ciao peppe

[Neptune]

Pretty sure it is Oscar-1, look at the props (Oscar-2 has seven bladed scew props) and water scoops (Oscar-2 has Akula style, flat scoops rather than the Alpha style round ones).

[Guest]

Hi all,

I'm Fiat, from Indonesia and currently got a 1/700 Cyber-hobby (ex Dragon?) so called Delta III (with USS Ingersoll).After checking the great reference here, it seems that the kit will need a lot of adjustment. The Aft fin just totally incorrect.

Further search, it seems the 1/700 kit I got is actually a Delta II. I've try to find a colored picture of the subs, especially to determine the torpedo tubes position and color scheme used to no avail. Lots of picture just showing above water and mostly its black and white.

Please advise, does Delta II subs torpedo tubes has an angled hatch (like US subs)? Can I assume the color scheme of the subs is all black (Delta IIs were out of service around 1996).

Thanks in advance.

[Tom Dougherty]

You might want to go here: http://submarines.narod.ru/photoalbum667bdrm.htm

Do you mean torpedo LOADING hatches or Torpedo SHOOTING tubes? Torpedoes exit from tubes in the upper bow of the Deltas.

[peppe]

http://www.podlodka.su/03/foto/photoalbum667b.php
http://soumarsov.pagesperso-orange.fr/667BD/667BD.htm
http://www.deepstorm.ru/DeepStorm.files ... D/list.htm
some sites and a foto of a delta chrging a torpedo
ciao peppe

[Neptune]

The best reference for a Delta II is the step in the turtle back for the missiles. If you sub has that step, it's a Delta II, if it goes down in one long flat surface, it's a Delta III. The aft rudder has been changed on the Delta III, some have a towed array on top, others do not.

[Guest]

@Tom: thanks for the link. I mean the shooting tubes.
@Peppe: also, thanks for the link, and great picture of a detailed position of torpedo loading hatch.

using the information, I made some adjustment to the model kit.

In some of the plan, I found Delta II has total of 8 water scoop, 4 in each side. 2 facing bow and 2 facing aft. Other shows total of 4 water scoop. Any body can confirm this? thanks a lot.

[peppe]

neptune, the step is only in delta I (667B) delta II(667BD) has no step, diffrence with delta III (667BDR) is a) in height of the missile superstructure on II at hidroplane level, in III higher and b)in the quantity and disposition of the slits.
ciao peppe

[Atma]

The Delta III sub from Dragon is totally crap, choose the OKBGrigorov release. Dragon kit of Delta III got the torpedo tubes totally wrong not a single class of Russian/Soviet SSBN not even the new Borei class SSBN have the torpedoes in this position as Dragon's Delta III.
Throw your Dragon kit onto the fire !

In some of the plan, I found Delta II has total of 8 water scoop, 4 in each side. 2 facing bow and 2 facing aft. Other shows total of 4 water scoop. Any body can confirm this? thanks a lot.

All SSBN minues Typhoon and Borei class have 8 water scoop 4 in each side. 2 facing bow and 2(the small ones) facing aft.

[Tom Dougherty]

I found Delta II has total of 8 water scoop, 4 in each side. 2 facing bow and 2 facing aft.

As Atma said, there are eight. The forward facing scoops are openings for cooling water for the two secondary loop steam condensers. The rearward facing scoops are the exit points for the slightly warmer water exiting. Russian submarines usually have two reactor plants, so two of everything (reactor, pressurizer, primary loop, heat exchanger, secondary loop to drive the propulsion turbines and turbogenerators (electrical power) and condensers. The steam is condensed by cooling it with external seawater, without mixing the steam (which is kept with low chlorides to reduce power plant corrosion) and the seawater. The scoops allow the forward motion of the boat to flow seawater in and out of the condensers without the use of pumps. This should make the submarines quieter.

The downside is that the large openings and associated piping essentially "invite" large volumes of water at ocean pressure inside the pressure hull. US SubSafe rules limit the intrusion of ocean pressure water into the interior of the pressure hull; thus scoops are not used. Seawater is still used to cool condensers, but the piping runs are kept short, cutoffs installed, and pipes are of minimal diameter (not conducive to use of a passive scoop system).

[Guest]

Hi all,

thanks for the great feedback.

@Atma: thanks for the confirmation regarding Russian Subs torpedo hatch position and water scoop.
@Tom: thanks for the detail explanation of water scoop.

As far as I'm throwing the kit into melting fire :D, I manage to allocate some spare time to tidying up a bit.

I attach some image of the Work in Progress. I added some detail for the torpedo resupply hatch and the torpedo tube doors, and will also add details to the water scoop.



I scribe the bow sonar section and will sand off the in-accurate angled torpedo tubes


the before and after detailed-up bow section


dry fit:


I plan to paint this Delta III (no.. II). with upper half: black and lower half: red.
feel free to gives input :D thanks

[Neptune]

neptune, the step is only in delta I (667B) delta II(667BD) has no step, diffrence with delta III (667BDR) is a) in height of the missile superstructure on II at hidroplane level, in III higher and b)in the quantity and disposition of the slits.
ciao peppe

Thanks for the correction Peppe. The bow of this kit also seems too wide, all Delta's before Delta IV, had a rather pointy bow and not rounded at all. This one seems a little too round.
As Atma said, this kit doesn't really seem worth much.

[peppe]

a drawing of delta III from the last book of apalkov on soviet subs
ciao peppe

[Guest]

a drawing of delta III from the last book of apalkov on soviet subs
ciao peppe

Thanks Peppe. Ok, this version of Delta III has a different kind of aft Vertical Fin. Maybe this is the early version of Delta III?
rgds
Fiat