Calling all PT Boat (all types) fans!

[PTConsultingNHR]

Al,

In regard to:



The airfoils comprised a light wooden frame covered with aircraft fabric (ELCO dwg 3539) - not much of a shrapnel hazard.

What about the supports? What raised and lowered the foils? Wouldn't they be an alloy? Flying wood pieces logically could puncture skin or put an eye out.

In regard to:


This is speculation which, in my mind, has no value unless it fosters research which results in the discovery of the actual reason. Speculation on its own only serves to confuse an issue. I try to avoid the latter as much as possible, so I have no response.

I wasn't exactly - as you say - speculating - I was only offering an educated guess as to why they were not fitted to the later boats (565 series). Additionally, if some squadrons had them and others didn't, wouldn't it be logical to come to the conclusion that the foils might have been an experiment?

[PTConsultingNHR]

You know something Al?

That subject would be a good one to research, wouldn't it?

Too bad I can't EASILY get down to NARA to do that research. I wish there was something like a transporter - that way, I could just hop on it, zip down to NARA ...

Since I no longer have a salary - I can't pay a researcher to do it .............. I wish my books would give me more royalties - as I really do miss my darned salary!

[alross2]

Additionally, if some squadrons had them and others didn't, wouldn't it be logical to come to the conclusion that the foils might have been an experiment?

No. They were authorized for 140+ boats. Photos show them fitted to many boats throughout the range listed.

Al Ross

[PTConsultingNHR]

Correct sir, ... However ...

My point was ....... the foils were not fitted to ALL ELCOs (which you listed) and then, discontinued. Which leads me to believe that ELCO was experimenting with them and then, saw that they didn't really do anything.

[kurt]

Thats how I felt, I can't see it being that effective and I really think it would obscure your vision. From what I understand those guys were nothing if not practical. If it had no use it was gone.
Kurt

[PTConsultingNHR]

I'd like to know why none of the English Channel boats experimented with either the ELCO THUNDERBOLT quad 20mm mount or the 20mm MK.XII mount in the turrets in lieu of the twin .50s in the MK. XVII mounts ...

One would think that since they were seeing action against Schnellboote - they would need more punch ...

[alross2]

My point was ....... the foils were not fitted to ALL ELCOs (which you listed) and then, discontinued. Which leads me to believe that ELCO was experimenting with them and then, saw that they didn't really do anything.

And you know that the foils were not fitted to all the boats in the series as intended and that they really didn't do anything because you have credible references that so state?? You're stating as fact a guess based on assumptions for which you offer no support and which do not address many other variables that may have led to the elimination of the airfoil.

Al Ross

[PTConsultingNHR]

Oh, for Pete's sake Al.

When did I ever in any of my posts here say that this was a fact, or that I was stating it "as fact"? I haven't. I was just stating an opinion ... what? Is that a crime?

And, in fact Al,I even posed it as a question to you ... I was just trying to learn. Al, if you wanted to know if I was stated it as a fact, email me and asked if I was ... don't tell me I was ...

[kurt]

What a pleasant place to learn, have conversation with people of similar interests and maybe a few laughs thrown in to boot.

Kurt

[alross2]

What a pleasant place to learn, have conversation with people of similar interests and maybe a few laughs thrown in to boot.

Actually, Kurt, it normally is a pleasant, cordial site with only the occasional aberration. Sorry for contributing to a perception that it isn't.

Al Ross

[kurt]

Well, I broke down an ordered Bluejackets' 1/48th scale 80' Elco kit. I guess all the facts behind model are accurate, but that's just an assumption on my part. Anyway, after reading Carney's book, I may try to build the 157. I hope I can do justice to the weapons in that scale. I like the idea of 1/48 scale as opposed to 1/35, at least until I actually get modeling.

Kurt

[PTConsultingNHR]

Hey Kurt?

Why don't you do it as the 195 with the quad-50 mount on the foredeck or the 174 in the Philippines with the normal 20mm and 37mm on the foredeck and the ELCO THUNDERBOLT quad-20mm aft? Or, as one of the boats with the SCR-517 "Beehive" radar ...

Just a thought....

[kurt]

I think I want to keep the weapon system simple. I tend to be a perfectionist, so many things don't get finished. I would like to complete a model for once. I don't know how well I could do a quad anything in 1/48th. Not much aftermarket stuff to cheat with. If I do 157 I may be able to get another 20mm from Bluejacket to replace the 50s in the front turret. That's a ways off, yet.

Kurt

[Saxondog]

Kurt,would you mind telling me where you live? Which state mate,nothing to detailed just curious.

As for the PT-Boats armaments or even fittings,it seems they were the least documented and the most outrageous in innovation of armaments.

Many accounts of the Pacific squadrons mounting what they could to increase their firepower against a well armed group of Japanese barges,and small craft.

My point being just about any weapon used in the Pacific theatre could be mounted without really being able to verify the facts.

Or am I mistaken on my point of view?

[kurt]

about 12 miles from Princeton, New Jersey

[PTConsultingNHR]

I understand Kurt.

The 157 would be an interesting subject to do from that kit ... especially with the MK. XII mount in the starboard turret. Would you do it with or without the SO-type radar?

A man who I consider to be a true gentleman and hero (to me alone), James "Boats" Newberry often would ride on that boat even though he wasn't assigned to her crew. He was such a nice man. A real southern gentleman. He once owned PT-796, according to his daughter, Alyce.

[victor Chun]

Brian,
Got your message and I agreed to what you said. Please give me your email so I can discuss further on this.
My email is victorkchun@aol.com Hope to hear from you soon.
Victor

As the author of the book AMERICAN PT BOATS IN WW II, I am now working on the forthcoming vol. II. I am collecting pictures and
information on PT boat model for a special chapter on modeling. Anything you can do to help will be appreciated.
Victor Chun
2584 Wellesley Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90064

Mr. Chun,
I don't know if you monitor this forum anymore, but I just found this website and thought I would give it a chance to try and get in touch with you.

Regarding your most recent publication "American PT Boats in World War II, Volume II", you are to be congratulated on your efforts to make a book that is organized in a fresh way from other PT Boat books and includes numerous rare photographs. It is a great companion piece to your first book. However, considering the retail price of this book I was extremely disappointed in the very poor editing and production of this expensive book. I assume this was most likely the fault of the publishing company. The number of misspellings, grammatical errors, and sentences that simply do not make sense are too numerous to count. Arguably the most important feature of this book are the photographs, but numerous photographs are mislabeled, repeated elsewhere with a different description (e.g. same ship pictures labeled in 2 separate places as different ships), or missing entirely. One of the ones I was most interested in was on page 150: the bottom picture is not the one the caption describes, and is actually just a repeat of the picture on page 100. This was really disappointing because I wanted to see the picture that caption discusses. Is there a way I could get a copy of this photograph?

I actually wrote to Schiffer with a list of the photo / caption errors, but they never responded. However, I noticed that the book is not available on Amazon anymore. Did they stop printing it?

Regards,
Brian Alexander

[kurt]

I have just received my BlueJacket kit of the 80' Elco PT Boat (PT103 Class) in 1/48 scale designed by our own factually accurate Al Ross II. (Huzzah, huzzah!!!!) I have been effectually brainwashed that 1/48th scale is "the" scale for ship models. I am still gonna get the Italeri version in the next few weeks when it becomes available! The BJ kit I believe is about 18 years old (Al jump in here) and shows it in some areas. BlueJacket demands a hefty sum for it, so you would think they would try and bring it up to today's standards, but I guess not. This model will be a real challenge for me in that I have not been able to finish any projects in quite awhile. I tell myself it is a perfectionist thing, but we all know better. The plans are on flimsy stock, but this has always been a BlueJacket short coming. There are several sheets of photoetch which is a plus. The fittings are made from Britannia which will mostly be remade from scratch as I imagine Al made the masters. The molds are sort of blown and things are often out of register (again a BlueJacket short coming.) Resin would have been nice here. Somethings are much too delicate to be made of Britannia and would not remain true to shape. Anyway, enjoy that part of modeling. I ordered Dick Washichek's DVD of Elco blueprints (again from AL) to help with this and will depend a lot on his PT-103.com site too. The 50 cals and the 20 mm kind of worry me. I think the barrels are beyond my skills. I hope I can borrow some brass aftermarket barrels for some place. It looks like a LONG and hopefully enjoyable voyage. Any ideas or suggestions (most especially from Al) would be greatly appreciated.

Kurt

[robertmelvin]

Kurt, you have expressed an interest in getting Italeri's 1/35 P.T. 109 "when it becomes available". You might want to wander on over to FreeTime Hobbies. They are now taking pre-orders for the kit. The pre-order price is $50.00 less than the MSRP price, so no might be the time to order. I ordered mine a couple of days ago.

Bob M

[kurt]

I saw that, but after what the BJ kit cost, I have to wait for my next payday.