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No, Helena was repainted at Mare Island and other cruisers were ordered to pick up the paint to transport back to Pearl.BFR4570 wrote:Hadn't the Helena already been painted 5-S at Pearl?
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For myself, the evidence, and the logic to support it are present in this picture.
Tracy, Were any of the aerial photos taken by the Japanese pilots good enough to zoom in and see if these platforms were a different shade of grey from any deck surfaces that were known to have been painted? Or have any aerial photos by American pilots while on maneuvers been discovered that might show any of these platforms or decks? Or are most of them too blurry to zoom in with? I know reconnaissance cameras were about as high definition as could be done at that time, but the planes were moving fairly quickly, too.Tracy White wrote:Naw, we just owe the ship's crew our respect, is all.ESzczesniak wrote:I hope you realize I owe you at least a case of beer of your choice by the time I finish my U.S.S. Arizona.
That said, I don't have a good answer for you with regards to the platforms. I'm still researching it. There's a good chance a lot of them were covered with linoleum, but I've found nothing to support that, textually. I'm hoping to take another crack at it in the Pearl Harbor Navy Yard files in a couple of months, but I have nothing more than that, really at this point.
In my continued searching, I came across this picture on NavSource: (http://navsource.org/archives/01/039/013933s.jpg). It is of the rear tripod mast with clearly darker decks. It lacks the AA platform, so I have to assume this dates after 1930 (her major overhaul with the tripod masts installed), but before her 1940 overhaul (where she got the radar platform and AA added). Navsource has it in the 1938-Dec. 6 1941 category. While this would put her in the pre-war gray scheme, reason for me would follow they would have again painted these decks in the appropriate deck color rather than leaving them 5-L like they appeared to be in some more distant photos. After all, measure 1 did call for all horizontal surfaces except for the main wood deck to be painted 5-D. So these decks should be 5-D.BFR4570 wrote:Tracy, Were any of the aerial photos taken by the Japanese pilots good enough to zoom in and see if these platforms were a different shade of grey from any deck surfaces that were known to have been painted? Or have any aerial photos by American pilots while on maneuvers been discovered that might show any of these platforms or decks? Or are most of them too blurry to zoom in with? I know reconnaissance cameras were about as high definition as could be done at that time, but the planes were moving fairly quickly, too.
Well, that's a hard one. While the inside of the tub looks very light, it looks about the same shade as the searchlight platform a couple decks below it, which is below the 5-L level and should definitely be 5-D. Heck if I know for sure, but I think I'll likely be going with 5-D.Tracy White wrote:Take a look-see
The link to a website with his interview is here: http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/ ... pic=221115Tracy White wrote:Would someone be so kind as to dig up the recently oft-mentioned Bruner interview/statements to post in this thread?
LOLTracy White wrote:Take a look-see
That is definitely one high resolution photograph to be able to get that kind of detail out of maybe .25 sq. inch of the original photo. Or is this pic not a blowup of a small piece of the pic below? If there are more photos like this one floating around, maybe the question of the linoleum can be answered yet. How about in this pic? Are any of the decks or platforms in question visible on the other ships remaining on Battleship Row? ). So, given the limited possible combinations, and the disparity between these colors, what reasonable explanation can anyone else come up with to fit the facts given by this photo? This photo is irrevelent to the 5-D discussion as it precedes the 5-D era. Notice both this BB and the one following still have their range clocks, and the following BB is in overall grey. I presume all the decks would be Deck Grey, not 5-D. Given the decks that are visible are in full shadow, they look darker than they may have been. Plus, the decks may be wet. It looks like they may have just exited the squall showing on the left side of the pic. The plane wing at the bottom of the pic looks like a biplane wing. Too squared off for a Kingfisher. Great reference photo for the Fighting Top window framing though! as well as how the railings were attached to the masts.ESzczesniak wrote:In my continued searching, I came across this picture on NavSource: (http://navsource.org/archives/01/039/013933s.jpg). It is of the rear tripod mast with clearly darker decks. It lacks the AA platform, so I have to assume this dates after 1930 (her major overhaul with the tripod masts installed), but before her 1940 overhaul (where she got the radar platform and AA added). Navsource has it in the 1938-Dec. 6 1941 category. While this would put her in the pre-war gray scheme, reason for me would follow they would have again painted these decks in the appropriate deck color rather than leaving them 5-L like they appeared to be in some more distant photos. After all, measure 1 did call for all horizontal surfaces except for the main wood deck to be painted 5-D. So these decks should be 5-D.BFR4570 wrote:Tracy, Were any of the aerial photos taken by the Japanese pilots good enough to zoom in and see if these platforms were a different shade of grey from any deck surfaces that were known to have been painted? Or have any aerial photos by American pilots while on maneuvers been discovered that might show any of these platforms or decks? Or are most of them too blurry to zoom in with? I know reconnaissance cameras were about as high definition as could be done at that time, but the planes were moving fairly quickly, too.
Now, what I still can't answer is about the small deck on top for fore mast house adn the AA platform on top the aft masthouse. Of course, I would find this after I completed the superstructure with the fore masthouse decks in 5-L...painting already underway of the deck below the mast house, but I still don't know what I'm doing to do with the one on top.
I also wouldn't discount the ability of strong direct sunlight, as there appears to be in this picture, to washout colors.BFR4570 wrote:...Yet in this pic both the MG Platform and the deck around the visible Searchlight appear to be the same color. That color seems to be quite a bit lighter than what we have come to think of as 5-D, unless they are really weathered and faded (entirely possible in that tropical sun), yet the color is definitely darker than what is on the top of the Fighting Top. The FT, SLP, and MGP are all in direct sunlight, and all are horizontal surfaces at the same angle to the sun...
I strongly suspect that to be brown linoleum. Check the color photos of the New Mexico-class ships in 1940 (On Navsource or in the Classic Warships book) for the color, and assume a bit of bleaching in the tropical sun. (For years I simply assumed the pre-war darker color of turret tops and steel decks in B&W photos was deck gray, but the color photos have shown otherwise. The shot Tracy posted is definitely too light for 5-D, so I think linoleum is most likely.)ESzczesniak wrote:Well, that's a hard one. While the inside of the tub looks very light, it looks about the same shade as the searchlight platform a couple decks below it, which is below the 5-L level and should definitely be 5-D. Heck if I know for sure, but I think I'll likely be going with 5-D.Tracy White wrote:Take a look-see
Non-skid at exterior locations is just what it was used for. See this url for one of the photos I mentioned:dsk wrote:I can understand linoleum being used on the bridge decks and casemate areas, but wouldn't it be slicker than youknowwhat when wet, and thus be a poor choice on the searchlight platform and other areas that are up high?
Normally I would not discount it either if the sun had been directly overhead. But from the shadows of the sidewalls of the tub it would appear that the sunlight was coming in at about a little less, or more, than a 45 deg angle, since the amount of shadow is about the same as the height of the sidewalls. This should highlight the color. Not wash it out. The color of the Fighting Top is consistent with the color of the Tops in other pictures.ESzczesniak wrote:I also wouldn't discount the ability of strong direct sunlight, as there appears to be in this picture, to washout colors.BFR4570 wrote:...Yet in this pic both the MG Platform and the deck around the visible Searchlight appear to be the same color. That color seems to be quite a bit lighter than what we have come to think of as 5-D, unless they are really weathered and faded (entirely possible in that tropical sun), yet the color is definitely darker than what is on the top of the Fighting Top. The FT, SLP, and MGP are all in direct sunlight, and all are horizontal surfaces at the same angle to the sun...
Let me NOT be the first on my block to buy this, on the other hand if anyone would like to buy my Dragon 1/700 BB39 for the mere sum of $85.00 I might let it go.ArizonaBB39 wrote:I was looking around amazon.com and found this:
Dragon USS ARIZONA BB39 1941 Battleship Deluxe 1/700
That is crazy...
