Calling all Kriegsmarine Deutschland-class (Panzerschiffe) fans

[Bill Gormley]

Olaf - No, I am not asking whether a photo or an illustration is correct. I am seeking confirmation that what is shown in an illustration of the Admiral Graf Spee as of December 1939 is correct versus what I can see for myself in a photo from May 1937. In other words, were the windlasses repainted at some point after May 1937? If so, then the photo and the illustration BOTH might be correct.

Antonio - Here is the illustration and the photo I am looking at. The illustration you will obviously recognize. The photo is from the Spithead Naval Review in May 1937. In the illustration the tops of the windlasses are red/white and green/white, while in the photo the tops appear to be a uniform grey color and the spokes (for lack of a better word) appear to be painted in alternating colors.

[Olaf Held]

@ Bill ~ Don't worry, I know what you mean...

If you look HERE, the top seems to have been the same colour, the spokes (the circular ring?) seem to differ from your photo. The vertical stripes do feature some kind of shine, which could mean that they have been painted green/red. On the other hand, all paints are believed to have a semigloss finish, so a simple black could have been the case as well. Unpainted brass or other metal is in the ball park as well. Colour photos from another ship say black, while other photos taken on another ship say green/red. I think this was down to the paint crew on each individual ship. To cut a long story short: I have no idea...

Happy guessing ~ Olaf!

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

@Bill,

I agree with Olaf statements written above.

On your photo you show correctly the Graf Spee with unpainted " windlasses "; I mean internally between the metal stripes.

After this period you showed and still during pre-war time I assume on the Graf Spee as well as on many other KM warships they were either red/green or black, as photo shows.

Problem is during the war time, as for example it is for sure that Admiral Scheer when camouflaged, had those "windlasses" painted internally on same camo colour.

Hard to say having only black and white photos, ... on peace time I would go for red/green on Graf Spee looking at the photos, .... and just for this unique ship call also on war time I will leave them red/green.

But again, ... this is just my personal opinion, ... not a definitive and irrefutable call, .. we only have B/W photos about it so far.

Bye Antonio

[Bill Gormley]

Antonio/Olaf - The photo Antonio posted is particularly interesting because a) it confirms the Graf Spee's windlasses were painted at some point (which is not what I see in the photos that Olaf and I posted), b) it shows that other major German warships followed a similar painting practice, and c) it proves that at least in some cases the green/red paint was left on during wartime. Thank you both for the clarification.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

@ Bill,

looking at available photos of the Graf Spee taken during the Atlantic cruise and into Montevideo it is possible to see that the windlasses had been re-painted from the Red/Green sectors with raw metal stripes as separators from the white ... with a very dark colour covering also the metal stripes this time .... and at this point I suspect probably from the Red/Green ... to black.

Bye Antonio

[109]

Hi,

the photograph could have used an orthocromatic sensitized film an thus red appears black in the picture.

Bye,

Bernd.

[Daniel Chavez]

Greetings,

Would anyone know how difficult it would be to take a 1/350 Academy Graf Spee and convert it to a Spanish Civil War Admiral Scheer? I have both the ISW and Academy kits in my stash and thought it might be nice to have both ships.

From what little I know, it seems like there are slight differences in the tower/bridge "wings" and searchlight platforms, a slightly different mainmast, and different directors. I'm guessing that the Arado would have to be replaced, too.

Any thoughts?

Thank you in advance!

Daniel

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

@ Daniel,


in addition on what you wrote .... the forecastle too, ... the wavebreacker position was different between Graf Spee and Admiral Scheer, ... than the cranes, ... one big and one small aside the main tower for the Admiral Scheer ,... 2 big ones on Admiral Graf Spee.

Yes, the Arado was not there during the Spanish patrol missions and there was an Heinkel HE 60 airplane on Admiral Scheer.

You may want to look in here for more details and compare the 2 warship drawings, ... I think you need to enroll to see them ...

http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1221

Admiral Scheer :

http://kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=465

Admiral Graf Spee :

http://kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=467

You can find them here in as well :

http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/in ... 435.0.html

In any case feel free to ask .... we are here to help.... Bye Antonio

[Arthur N]

Can anybody confirm whether Graf Spee had air intakes in front of the funnel.
Photographs I have studied and that is lots do not confirm one way or the other whether these were there or not.
Trumpeters 1/350 scale rendition has them, Academy's does not...??
Trumpeter has the rear anchor incorrectly orientated , a glaring mistake which should not really occur in today's high detail environment or am I being picky.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

@ Arthur N,

can you post a photo of the details you are mentioning so it will be easy to see and respond you.

Thanks and Bye Antonio

[Arthur N]

Hello Antonio,

I do not how to attach a picture! Semi computer literate, me. Copy and paste does not seem to work.

The air intake funnels appear on some photographs and models ( Trumpeter and Heller) just in front of the stack on either side.

Academy does not have them.

Studying photos of Graf Spee in Montevideo does not help. However they do do not seem to be there.
Thanks for your interest in my question

[Bill Gormley]

Arthur - I have a question for Antonio regarding the paint scheme on the Graf Spee at the time of her sinking. I'm building the Trumpeter kit so I'll snap some photos of the kit and instructions and post them tomorrow. With luck one will capture the air intake funnels you're interested in.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

@ Arthur and Bill,

please tell me what you need, ... if I can help you it will be my pleasure ...

Meanwhile here the Graf Spee funnel view in Montevideo.

Bye Antonio

[Bill Gormley]

Arthur - I think Antonio's photos show what you're looking for. If not, here's a photo from the Trumpeter instructions:



Antonio - My question is about how the wood deck on the forward deckhouse/superstructure appeared as of December 1939. For reference, I am talking about the planked area shown here:



Was the planking entirely in wood tones or was it over painted in grey in some areas? The reason I ask is the top down view above shows grey from the area immediately aft of the 280mm turret all the way back to where the two anti-aircraft guns are located. As you can see from my photo above that would require painting some of the planked deck in grey.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

@ Bill Gormley,

looking at this photo ... my opinion is that it was the same colour as the main deck, ... same wood just as it appears on the attached photo were you can see a good part of it and the main deck under it as well.

I have to correct my 2007 drawing made with Abram on this detail, ... but at that time I did not have the fantastic Diego M. Lascano book, highly reccomended for all Admiral Graf Spee lovers, ... and the photo I am attaching here is taken from that book ...

Bye Antonio

[Bill Gormley]

Antonio - Thank you for the clarification. I hadn't heard of Diego Lascano's book so I'll search for it.

[ArthurN]

To Antonio and Bill,
Thank you gentlemen, the pictures posted show exactly what I was looking for.
I have the Academy Premium Edition kit of Graf Spee and must admit it is ok but not great. Using lots of filler to hide joins
The plastic is good but the instructions are tricky to follow, but no big deal.
I also bought the Eduard PE set for the model to supplement the Academy PE so I hope to have top model on completion.
She sure was a handsome ship, Graf Spee was.

[USSDETROIT]

Please have mercy on me this is my 1st post? please do not keelhaul me.In regards to the Academy Graf Spee, I started my 1st ship build this month.I have a few questions, on the main guns, should I remove the raised chevron detail? why did Academy portray the railings as having only 2 cables? , I have decided to use the White Ensign PE set to fix this mistake, good idea?I have drilled out all the port holes and intend on applying from the interior simulated glass, do you guys typically drill out all the portholes, doors etc for authenticity?.Looking forward to posting pics,thank you.

[totally_random_man]

hello, I'm plannig a build of Admiral Scheer in 1942 and I have plans for it (from Monografie Morskie)
but they seem fairly inaccurate comparing with photos. For example the after superstructure have a completely different
shape in the photos and the bridge seems inaccurate too. I also have trouble with the shape of the lengthened bow.
Can someone recommend me a source for accurate plans?
many thanks

[Bill Gormley]

Question regarding the floatplane that the Graf Spee was carrying in December 1939. The Joslin/Bonomi illustration above (my post from October 16, 2012) shows it in both all white and green with a light blue underside. Which is correct or it not known for sure?