Gloire

[sandy]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me why the French cruiser Gloire was painted in that rather extreme dazzle camouflage ?

I assume it was done after her refit at Philadelphia.

I know PT boats had the 'Adaptor' scheme, but did any other US warship have something as dazzling (sorry) as the Gloire?

Also, how long was it on the ship?

All the best
Sandy

[Tracy White]

I can answer the "why" at least - to disrupt her profile to make it harder to judge speed, direction of travel, and distance from viewer.

[sandy]

Thanks, Tracy.

Based on the fact that there were quite a few 'dazzle' schemes that the USN used, I was really wondering why the Gloire's was so extreme?

Was it something the USN was thinking of but did not want to try it on one of their ships, or was it a request from the Free French Navy to paint it that way?

All the best
Sandy

[Tracy White]

I have no documentation on that.... most of my research has been into the Pacific Fleet.

That said, US yards did paint Royal Navy Ships into Royal Navy Schemes, using Royal Navy paints, so it's very possible that was a french designed paint scheme.

It is much more intense and effective in some ways, but for a much higher amount of initial work to paint and upkeep. I'm also not all that sure that it was more effective overall, as the pattern of the stripes doesn't do a lot to blend large portions of the ships into the background. Similarly to how Measure 12 modified used splotches that were too small and blended together at a distance, I think Gloire's pattern would tend to lose effectiveness at further distances sooner. I'm no professional camoufleur however, and haven't read any tests and evaluations on the scheme to know for sure.

[Timmy C]

For counter-submarine work, I think Gloire's scheme is one of the more effective ones for disguising her outline, size, and heading. The famous photo shot from her port bow makes her appear a lot shorter than a profile view would indicate.

[Tracy White]

Close-in, yes, I agree. I'm talking about medium to far distances.

[sandy]

Hi,

Thanks again for the comments.

My understanding of the Adaptor scheme was that the close nature of the alternating stripes did case the paint to blend or grey out at a distance.

Presumably, as the ship got closer to, say, the submarine periscope the scheme then caused some confusion on direction, size, etc.

Whether an attack solution had already been set up by then we wouldn't know.

In as much as the Gloire seems unique in having it with the close-coupled stripes (neither of her refitted in the US sisterships had it, nor the Fantastique class super-destroyers).

Hmm, it would look dramatic in 96th or 72nd scale though.

All the best
Sandy

[codythecatt]

Presumably, as the ship got closer to, say, the submarine periscope the scheme then caused some confusion on direction, size, etc.

some confusion ... and severe migraine headaches! the whole crew of the submarine would be in their bunks with a bad case of the woozies!

very effective if you ask me

[Tracy White]

My understanding of the Adaptor scheme was that the close nature of the alternating stripes did case the paint to blend or grey out at a distance.

That's my point and the "problem" with it. The US Navy evolved to patterns with larger shapes, so that the overall structure was harder to see when viewed against a light or dark background. If we take a shot of San Francisco in dazzle and muck with the threshold a bit, we wind up with this:

SanFranThreshold.jpg

Note that whole blocks and swaths of the light colored area are cut out when they're about the same as the light sky. If it all blends to gray, you lose this effect.

[sandy]

Interesting. I can see the point.

However, the Gloire wasn't just black and white, but also had vertical bands of grey across the stripes, plus a dark section amidships which sort of looks like it is doing the scheme (I can't remember which number) that superimposed a destroyer silhouette on a cruiser.

Actually, if you look at the Gloire some more, it is predominantly white which I am assuming is the background colour (rather than a very light grey), so it could fade against the horizon. The black stripes are quite narrow and may fade out at distance.

I know the Peter Scott schemes worked on the principal that, at night, a grey ship appears blacker than its background, hence painting it in swathes of white helped try and avoid that, but whether that effect worked in daylight also???

All the best
Sandy