At 'Em Arizona Fans!

[ESzczesniak]

Well, they weren't aboard usually when at Pearl Harbor... they were flown or taxied to Ford Island for maintenance and upkeep.

Makes sense, I was assuming in port they would be off ship. I just don't know if I want a port model. While doing some searching, I see Trumpeter claimed they'd release the Kingfishers seperately (who knows) and Riich's new 1/200 Gato has a Kingfisher with the kit. I'm thinking more likely than not, the two I have will get white glued on, and I'll look to acquire two new ones to work with.

[Tracy White]

If the AMW SOC's ever make it out I suspect there were be a lot more Kingfishers available for trade.....

[Timhan]

For what it is worth, because the planes were flown off prior to the attack, i built the planes as a separate project and displayed them
separately on the mounting board with a suitable plaque to indicate this. Looks quite good. Only a thought.
Tim

[idartist45]

As a follow up to my USS Idaho painting, which sold as soon as I displayed it, the next one will be Arizona in company with Oaklahoma and Nevada returning to Pearl after night firing on the 4th of December. Can anyone out there tell me about the location of the excerise and any other information pertaining to this sortie? What islands if any, did they pass, weather and positions in relation to each other. I would like this as factual as possible. Any info would be appreciated. Thank you in advance. Bill Gardoski

[ESzczesniak]

Well, I discovered a new modeling hell last night...rigging. It's not that the rigging itself is that bad, it's trying not to break off any other tiny pieces while working. Nonetheless, I found a rare discovery, a completed 1/200 U.S.S. Arizona. I had heard these only existed in captivity (i.e. workbenches), but it seems they really do exist in the wild. Paint is still drying, but here she is:



And one late in progress picture that I still like:



I'm planning to sit down tonight and get some true pictures, details shots, etc. to share.

[Tracy White]

Nice!

[ArizonaBB39]

Beautiful build!

[denstore]

Have to agree. Usually I find most of the US battleship before the New Mexico class to be quite ugly, but this one almost looks pretty.

[ESzczesniak]

Thank you guys for the compliments. It didn't seem fair to post a large picture post in this thread, so I've put the final pictures in a seperate thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=135988

[Andrew D BB39 Sec]

Hello everyone,
Finally made my way to this board. I'm mostly an aircraft builder, but I do have the unbelievable privilege of serving the last living survivors of the Arizona and their families as their secretary.

I read this post (at the bottom of this one) from several months back; it is true the book says that, and many have taken it as gospel. I was fortunate enough to know Milt Hurst for several years until his death in 2010. I once asked him about the color argument of blue-gray vs. dark gray, and his answer was:
"Andrew, I don't really know what color it was...all I know is, I thought it looked TERRIBLE!!!"

Definitely whenever I ask them, details on the facts differ, all but in one respect: ALL of them, without exception, agree 100% that while in drydock post-collision in November the entire crew got out in a massive effort to repaint the ship in a lighter color.

Regards!

Another comment on the Arizona color in December:

On pages 226-227 of Stillwell's book, he is discussing the collision between the Arizona and the Oklahoma. The is a paragraph about Aviation Machinist's Mate Thrid Class Milton Hurst who returned from a class on the East Coast about the change in color. Instead of light gray overall, it was now dark gray (not blue) up tp the level of the bridge. If he was correct, would it really be painted again before the beginning of December?

[dsk]

Hi Andrew,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your input on this matter. Unfortunately we're still no closer to the truth, and it seems we've exhausted the efforts to get reliable information from the survivors. Most of them are probably still too reflective of the buddies they lost that day to give a rat's behind about what color the ship was. Of those modelers who've actually been able to hear or read survivors' accounts about the color, I think many of us are still leaning towards Lauren Bruner's assessment that the Arizona was in a partially repainted state at the time she was destroyed. Not only would it explain the conflicting stories, but the photographic evidence seems to point that way. However we still have no firm evidence, let alone concrete concrete proof, and I fear we will eventually lose the last living survivor to time without having finally answered the question. Perhaps if Mr. Bruner is still with us and you know him personally maybe you can interview him again and try to shed some more light on it. Some might say that the Arizona's final color scheme is a fairly moot point, but I feel that those of us trying to do justice to the ship by making our scale models as accurate as possible have a valid reason to pursue this.

[BFR4570]

Welcome Andrew! I agree with dsk that many of us would like to get the color scheme correct if possible. And that is not just because some of us are nit-picky, but because we want to do the best job we can on this model because for many of us it is our personal tribute and memorial to all the men who died with her. Unfortunately, we each have to make our own best guess as to what that scheme is using all the information that is currently available.

Do you have any plans to maybe build an Arizona someday? Ships can be quite a bit different than those wingy-thingies you're used to. But there is plenty of help here if you need any!

[denstore]

I got the Lion Roar 1/350 Arizona super detail set today, and it is definitely not the same as the old one. It is quite nice, actually. Several frets of sharp etch, main and secondary barrels, and resin parts.
I got the Artwox wooden deck for Arizona as well, and it seems quite nice. It is made to fit the kit, and has the incorrect(?) asymmetry in the bow and stern area.

[Andrew D BB39 Sec]

Thanks guys! Yes, actually I did do an Arizona, and it's over on steelnavy.com. Took the old Revell along with the Tom's set and a ton of scratchbuilding and went nuts with it.

Agreed that when Lauren Bruner told me that bit about the half-painted ship a few years back it all seemed to click into place, although admittedly Don Stratton and Glenn Lane always told me they were certain the whole ship was finished in that color other than the fighting tops.

After several years of talking to the guys on this, I have come away absolutely, 100% certain that at least part of her was done up in the lighter color. Why? Because EVERY ONE of them remembers starting a new paint color of a lighter blue shade while finishing drydock time in early November. Some of their comments, though paraphrased:

-"Remember, they were hauling 5-gallon buckets of the stuff up in cargo nets to us! Remember that? (saying that to other survivors who nodded). And God, it was awful stuff, took 3-4 coats before you stopped seeing the old color under it." -Lauren Bruner
-"They even had us cooks up there painting; they were passing it down to us in pails." -Clare Hetrick
-"We (his buddies and him) couldn't go on leave until we'd finished painting a big section of the metal deck; we were in a hurry, so we just poured it all out and spread it all out with mops! The next day they came and hosed down the decks, and our area hadn't dried properly yet (because of the mop-application; too many thick areas which hadn't dried yet) and it just washed away with the water, showing the old color! Boy, we got a bawling-out for that one!" -Lonnie Cook
"Blue-gray (pointing to a color chip of 5-S). I should know; I was touching it up." -Don Stratton

Out in the parking lot of the hotel, Lonnie Cook approached me and said: "Ya know, I've been thinking about that paint...it was a light blue-gray...kind of like that (he pointed to a Lincoln Continental parked nearby painted in a light pearl-blue). Not exactly like that...but a lot like that."

Now don't crucify me, I'm just the messenger; but I do offer it for what it's worth. I feel incredibly blessed to be in a position to ask them.

Thanks guys!

[dsk]

Thanks again for your insight, Andrew. However as you indicated even the survivors can't agree how far the Arizona was painted, although I also feel that the repaint in 5-S was at least started (the post-attack photos show the aft turrets being too light to have been 5-D in my opinion). You'd think Don Stratton of all people would know whether the repaint reached all the way up the superstructure, since his station was in the port side AA director. However he's also the one who swears a torpedo hit the ship when most others (and the forensic evidence) seem to disagree. Unless somebody uncovers some high-res pictures of the Arizona taken just before the attack (not likely) we'll just have to keep scratching our heads over it.

[Andrew D BB39 Sec]

All true! Although, with all respect to Don (and an immense amount of respect at that), he was one of the younger guys aboard at 19. Lauren Bruner was actually Don's trainer and had been on the ship since '38, and I find myself more likely to trust one of the more seasoned guys since the ship had been his home for most of his adult life to date.

Don also swears up and down that the turret tops were never red (several others back him up on that), but ALL 3 of the surviving guys from the Aviation division (only one now since Milt Hurst and Glenn Lane passed) clearly remembered the red tops. Why? Because the red tops were specifically for the aviation guys; they had absolutely nothing to do with the other divisions. Glenn would tell me of the terrible time he had trying to pick out the correct ship to land at since the Arizona was with the Nevada and Oklahoma, extremely similar ships in silhouette especially with poor/changing light conditions, weather, and a shaky prop plane. The red tops were a Godsend for them. Don argues that it would have been stupid, that it would have made ship identification for the enemy an easy task.

Which leads me back to the original point: just as all 3 aviation guys I knew/know specifically remember the red tops, every single survivor I have ever met who was aboard during late October/early November remembers 1) a new paint job at least started, involving the whole crew's efforts, and that 2) that the new color was lighter and bluer. The fact that this is unanimous from them is what convinced me, especially when I once was with 6 of them in a room relaxing and swapping stories, and I asked them all in a group at once. ALL of them nodded and said yes/yeah/oh, yes, as casually as you'd walk out the door in the morning.

Could be mass hypnosis, of course ;)

[Tracy White]

That's why I decided to focus on the official documents... I really hate telling vets they're wrong. If we found a/the smoking gun, we really don't have to.

[Andrew D BB39 Sec]

Totally agree! What arrogance I would have in telling any of the survivors that I, a mere Gen-X'er, could know more about their ship than they would!!! I really do feel caught in the middle.

[Timmy C]

Andrew/ BB39 Sec, I've associated your last few guest posts to your account, so you can now post without needing to have the first three posts approved.

[Andrew D BB39 Sec]

Thanks Timmy!