Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

[Tracy White]

With regards to getting it right, be aware that we're going to be guessing on the flag plot.

[lvsquarerigger]

With regards to getting it right, be aware that we're going to be guessing on the flag plot.

I agree but the photo from NARA has eliminated quite a lot of that, just not the very front.

[dbiggied]

Brand new member here...have read every single word in this thread and studied every picture...but first time posting here. Just now getting started on my Lex (feel like I'm late to the game). I'm starting with the hull and my first big project is scratchbuilding new boat pockets...if you look at the HNSA plans, mentioned earlier in the thread, it looks like the Lex used chain railings on the outside edge of the boat pocket decks. (removable, I assume).

#1. Is this accurate?...did the Lex really carry these railing on the boat pockets?

#2. If so, where can I get photoetch chain railings without having to buy a whole set for another ship? I've looked at all the usual suspects...Tom's, Gold Medal, White Ensign, etc...I see lots of ship specific sets that include them, but no generic railing sets that do.

Thanks!

::EDIT::
Just took a harder look at the HNSA plans...they show railings but not chain...I know I've seen drawings that show chain railings...not sure where now...original post and questions still apply.

[Tracy White]

They were most assuredly removable stanchions with chain. I don't know of anyone who does a generic set of chain railings, though.

[Elvis965]

If you're backdating her they come in the YKM back date kit, if you can find one.

Bob

[dbiggied]

I already have the Tom's Modelworks set and it didn't come with them. I hate that YMW folded...I have a North Carolina too and am not looking forward to correcting the turrets.

Seems like there's a market for chain railings...now where did I put that photoetching kit?

[Tracy White]

The YKM North Carolina turrets weren't all that great. Better in some ways, but not without their own amount of work to fix. I was disappointed.

[dbiggied]

That is a disappointment...I read all about how crappy the stock turrets were and how great these resin turrets were and was looking forward to an easy fix...guess with what you said about them, and limited availability, I'll just have to correct them myself.

On another note, I did find some chain railings...Eduard sells a set...but they are $25...kind of steep for those of us on a budget...especially since I need about 6 inches worth...

[John Snyder]

We can probably provide generic chain railing, but since this was often used in varying lengths between removable stanchions, it seems to me that simply offering runs of chain railing without stanchions would be the best bet. Any thoughts?

[dbiggied]

Since the chains droop between stanchions, you'd have to make them straight and then the end user would have to attach them to stanchions and then curve them to get the length of the droop right...kind of difficult, but a workable solution. (that's provided the end user is concerned abut 100% accuracy)

In the particular case we are talking about, I would only need a total of about 6 inches of run, so maybe a better solution would be to include some lengths in a generic railing set that includes standard bar railings as well...I'd be a lot more likely to drop $25-$40 on a big set of railings with multiple types than I would be to spend $25 on a big set of nothing but chain railings that I'll use 5% of.

I will actually need some extra bar railings for this project...if I had found a set with some 3 bars, some two bars, some chain, etc., all in one set, I would have already bought it.

[Tracy White]

Chain railings without stanchions? I don't see how that would be better in that you're going to either just have straight thin pieces that the builder has to glue on and then sag individually (kills the "simply" part of your sentence) or sagged pieces with no stanchions that are already sagged to some set value of distance. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding....

I would think that there might be a fairly standard distance between stanchions based on type - at least in US service. All BBs would be about the same, all cruisers, etc. I'll do some looking on the plans I have when I get home later tonight and maybe do a count per set frames (i.e. ten frames on XX cleass = 12 stanchions or something like that) basd on the HNSA BOGPs.

[Timmy C]

How many of the current existing bar railing sets have accurately-spaced stanchions anyway?

I think it's better to include stanchions with the dropped chain railings, even if the spacing has to be generic.

[dbiggied]

Have all the main components of my first boat pocket made, but in looking at the HNSA plans, I see that the port forward pocket has two "disc fans" under the catwalk...does anyone have any more info on what these look like or can point me towards a picture of them? Thanks!

[lvsquarerigger]

This is the best pic I have and if you zoom in you can see the two circles but they look like they are closed.

James

[dbiggied]

I'm guessing they are some sort of hull ventilation system, and I would assume that they have some sort of armored cover over them that can be closed when the ship goes into action...I'd like to try to find more info on them, but if nothing else, I suppose I could just put down a thin circle of plastic to represent the cover and move on.

[dbiggied]

How many of the current existing bar railing sets have accurately-spaced stanchions anyway?

I think it's better to include stanchions with the dropped chain railings, even if the spacing has to be generic.

I'd be okay with generic spacing...I can't imagine that the spacing varied by more than a foot or two from one ship to the next anyway...my big deal is that someone should include a few lengths on a generic railing set so I don't have to buy two sets to get all the railings I need.


...and I figure someone will point this out sooner or later, so yes, the GMM Lexington set has the chain railings for the boat pockets already, but...

#1 I already bought the Tom's set, and
#2 the openings for the boat pockets on the kit hull look too big compared to the HNSA plans, so I'm going to re-do those too, so the chains from GMM wouldn't fit anyway

[lvsquarerigger]

How many of the current existing bar railing sets have accurately-spaced stanchions anyway?

I think it's better to include stanchions with the dropped chain railings, even if the spacing has to be generic.

I'd be okay with generic spacing...I can't imagine that the spacing varied by more than a foot or two from one ship to the next anyway...my big deal is that someone should include a few lengths on a generic railing set so I don't have to buy two sets to get all the railings I need.


...and I figure someone will point this out sooner or later, so yes, the GMM Lexington set has the chain railings for the boat pockets already, but...

#1 I already bought the Tom's set, and
#2 the openings for the boat pockets on the kit hull look too big compared to the HNSA plans, so I'm going to re-do those too, so the chains from GMM wouldn't fit anyway

I dug out my HNSA plans that I had resized, got out the caliper, and the results are surprising. The kit openings are the right height but wrong length. the plans are 1.698 inches in length but the kit openings are 1.625 inches. Hope that helps.

James

[dbiggied]

What size reduction did you use to print your plans?...I pulled the HNSA plans into photoshop and through some math and judicious measurement of waterline and fore and aft verticals, reduced the plans to 54.56%. This gave me a length overall on the plans of 30.41 inches, which coincides exactly with my kit hull. This translates to 886.95 feet loa compared to the stated dimensions of 887.7 loa (0.01 margin of error). My reduced plans and kit hull measured at the waterline are within similar tolerances to the stated dimensions.

Based on these reduced plans, the dimensions of the port boat pockets are as follows:
#1. 11mm by 41.5mm
#2. 11.5mm by 39.5mm
#3. 10.8mm by 34mm
#4 10.8mm aft, 11.1mm forward by 51mm

but the dimensions of the kit pockets are:
#1. 11.5mm by 42mm
#2. 11.5mm by 40mm
#3. 11.5mm by 35mm
#4. 11.5mm by 53mm

If my math and measurements are correct (and I never guarantee that they are ), then the kit openings are not only all too large in both dimensions, but in the case of the aft pocket, the opening isn't even the right shape, as indicated by the plans, which show that the aft pocket opening is taller at the front than at the rear.

unless I'm crazy...

[lvsquarerigger]

What size reduction did you use to print your plans?...I pulled the HNSA plans into photoshop and through some math and judicious measurement of waterline and fore and aft verticals, reduced the plans to 54.56%. This gave me a length overall on the plans of 30.41 inches, which coincides exactly with my kit hull. This translates to 886.95 feet loa compared to the stated dimensions of 887.7 loa (0.01 margin of error). My reduced plans and kit hull measured at the waterline are within similar tolerances to the stated dimensions.

Based on these reduced plans, the dimensions of the port boat pockets are as follows:
#1. 11mm by 41.5mm
#2. 11.5mm by 39.5mm
#3. 10.8mm by 34mm
#4 10.8mm aft, 11.1mm forward by 51mm

but the dimensions of the kit pockets are:
#1. 11.5mm by 42mm
#2. 11.5mm by 40mm
#3. 11.5mm by 35mm
#4. 11.5mm by 53mm

If my math and measurements are correct (and I never guarantee that they are ), then the kit openings are not only all too large in both dimensions, but in the case of the aft pocket, the opening isn't even the right shape, as indicated by the plans, which show that the aft pocket opening is taller at the front than at the rear.

unless I'm crazy...

Probably not. I don't have Photo Shop or the knowledge or training to use it if I did. What I did was download the plans to a flash drive and proceed to the copy center. I used the length of the flight deck as a guide to get a print to match and then applied the same formula to the other pages I wanted, namely port and starboard profiles and decks from the hanger deck up. As I was, and still am, working on the bridge structure at the time I compared the hull to that profile, it matched, and went I merrily on my way. After your numbers I dug out the port profile again and found it to be 1/2 an inch too long! So the numbers I gave previously were wrong and yours are probably right. I checked the other pages and they all match up to the model so it's only page three I have to get fixed. Since I'm not working on that area at the moment there's no big hurry to do so. Are you posting a build log anywhere? It would be interesting to see what you are doing as a reference when I get to that point. It now seems like my plan to cut off the back of the boat pockets won't work correctly and they will have to be built completely from scratch. Oh well, nothing new for this kit.

Thanks for the info you've provided,

James

[dbiggied]

I don't have a build log as of yet...my kit was a salvage...I'm guessing grandma got it for "little Timmy" for Christmas or something...and then returned it when it turned out to be way too much of a challenge...it already had the pockets in, hull and flight deck together, and some of the AA on...looks like "little Timmy" spread the tube glue with a trowel. Nothing was screwed up that I wouldn't have modified from the kit anyway, and I got it on clearance for practically nothing.

So far, I've "deconstructed" it, cleaned up and shaved off some details (and glue spots), fixed the hull mismatch issues, and started the pockets. I sawed the backs off the pockets and was going to add details and new backs to the original shells, but after looking at the size discrepancies, I decided to scrap them and re-do them entirely. Will try to get some pics up soon.