Calling all Borodino (Бородино) class (Tsushima 1905) fans

[76Mees]

Tovarisch,

After skimming through the wealth of information contained in these pages, I�d like to seek your assistance in a few points:

1. Any ideas about the most recent update sets released for these ships (by Complect Zip, Artwox and North Star):

- Turrets:
http://soga-miniatures.com/index.php?productID=23322

http://soga-miniatures.com/index.php?productID=23324

- Chimneys:
http://soga-miniatures.com/index.php?productID=23316

- wooden deck
http://artwox.com/index.php?page=3&document_srl=850

2. regarding the 75mm battery... was it mounted in Kanet or Meller repairs? A search in my reference material proved inconclusive.

3. Call me a masochist, but I still want to model a K. Suvorov (I know, I know) - as the Flagship at Tsushima - and a Borodino, as the namesake of the class. But, at least for contrasts� sake, I intend to model Borodino as she was during her sea trials - white hull and all. So here�s the question: during the sea trials, would the ship carry its full complement of armament, boats, etc?

Thanks in advance,
76Mees

[litvin70]

Hi,
are you remember about resin boats, yawls from ZIP?
http://soga-miniatures.com/index.php?categoryID=1724

[76Mees]

Hi Litvin70,
Yes, I saw those too. But I�m still not sure I�d use them, though... The "stock" boats, enhanced with PE, would probably be good enough.
But the turrets and chimney would, if correct, solve some of the major shortfallings of the kit; and the 75mm guns would add some nice extra detail. That�s why I�m so interested in those particular items.
Thanks,
76Mees

[litvin70]

Hi,
You can find many helpful information from groupbuilds(use translator) on Russian shipmodel site
http://karopka.ru/forum/forum263/topic6699/
http://karopka.ru/forum/forum263/topic2153/

[DariusP]

I would say yes to funnels and turrets. Wooden deck simply repeats mistakes of kit's deck so, if you will be doing any corrections, it's useless to you. If not (and it's within your budget) - you might as well go for it.

Don't understand your 2nd question. What do you mean by "repairs"?
3rd question: sea trials were carried out before and after armament was installed and it appears from the photos of Aleksander III that very few boats were carried.

[Christian M.]

Czesz Darius,

I have found now 48 points of mistakes / possible areas for corrections. Ahhrghh ...!!! :-/
I think I will build first some other Russian Pre-Dreadnought from Combrig in Resin ... or re-building a second time Varyag from Zvezda before starting Borodino's ... or looking for alternative 1/350 kit

To say it short: Your old warning was full justified!

[DariusP]

Dobry wiecz�r Christian. It would be easier to count what's right with this kit but yes, it's a bit of a dog I'm affraid. You will be much better off (and more satisfied) working on something more accurate

[76Mees]

Darius and Litvin, thanks for your answers!

Darius, for "repairs" please understand "mounts", or "carriage"; I�m more familiar with "land" terms. There�s a drawing of the 75mm gun in Stapel�s book that looks similar to what Complect Zip offers as a "75mm Kanet in Meller carriage":

http://www.freetimehobbies.com/CZR-350008/

So, I�d like to confirm if this is the correct type for this ship�s class.

[Christian M.]

Nice ... now I must find a shop in Germany or in the UK having these things, or I must ask my "Vitamin C like Connections" in Switzerland and / or Singapore about ... for later, when I will start Borodino's too after next 3 planned ships to make.

[DariusP]

It's not. IIRC 75mm gun mounts on Borodino and Orel were a variant of "Obuhovskij" type. But why would you want to buy replacement 75mm guns with mounts? Are you planning to open up all the gun ports? If not, just 75mm brass barrels might be a better idea.

[Christian M.]

Hi Darius,

From same manufacture here are also 6inch guns available. For sure they are more detailed as the scrap in Zvezdakit.
Maybe I will try this with open gun ports, but I make much more researches about ship in general before starting a Borodino class.

Order of next builds (all 1/350) is at me
- IJN Mikasa (just started)
- HMS Dreadnought
- Varyag (this time in correct wartime paint! )
- Poltawa full hull from Combrig.
(+ in interim sometimes further progress on my USS Essex)

BTW ... Poltawa and correct wartime paint of 1st Russian Pazific Fleet:



Source Tsushima.ru

Of course an oil paint = no real evidence etc., but intresting.

[76Mees]

Thanks for the info (and for the insight), Darius. Right now, I�m researching what�s available to update these kits; then I�ll decide what I�ll really use. I�m leaning to:
- Complect Zip�s Turrets and Funnels;
- Master�s brass barrels;
- WEM PE;
- North Star�s nameplates and insignia (fancy looking and not too expensive),
- lots of plastic sheets and putty .

That�s it. I really like GMM�s PE, but I believe WEM�s is more complete.

[litvin70]

I bought both set (GMM, WEM).

[DariusP]

Interesting painting indeed Christian but (and this is purely my opinion) I would think that paint would have been a bit darker. It was called "dark olive" after all

[Christian M.]

Depends how fresh it is painted in my opinion Darius + in modeling about scale effect too (means as smaller kit is in comparsion to original, as more lighten color must be).
At least it comes very close to paint as Russian military vehicles had between both worldwars and in start of WW-2 ... and this color was woll known to become after some months much more lighten, even a complete other green.

Same issue is with Borodinos here. When they left Yard, paint was a very dark grey which was nearly black. But after 14,000km travel around half of world to Korea, they had a middle grey ....

[DariusP]

errrr... Borodinos' hulls weren't "very dark grey". They were black. Remember that Russian Imperial Navy did have base colour called "soot".

[Christian M.]

Yep, but this "soot" was explained / named to be in fact "un gris tr�s fonc� � l'anthracite" by the French Engineers in the Franco-Russian Yard on Galerniy Island who were inflicted in the battleship Oriol ... source are different, but one is also to be found in the French Yard who built Tsarevich.

However ... After 14,000 km travel and several Month on sea, you can be sure that they were not black or like black when being in battle at Tsushima. A good example from other ground as comparsion is this German "Panzer Grey" early in WW-2. Looking pure on RAL chip for this color, you have anthracite and not grey. But in fact, they were dark grey ... why? Weathering effect.

[DariusP]

A bit of misunderstanding Christian. I ment that those hulls were black when freshly painted. They certainly weren't black at the end of a journey

[Charlestonguy]

They might have been black with a healthy coat of rust JMHO

[Christian M.]

They might have been black with a healthy coat of rust JMHO

No ... rusty for sure, but not still black or like black ... if not making a "fresh from the Yard version" of them as model.

Point is still the open question "how black" this color was, which is declared in different shades by different people in different sources. Out of this, the color will become much lighter (how much lighter depends again on "how black it was before"), being several month in sun and salty air on oceans.