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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Hi all. I just got the fantastic 1/350 scale Dragon kit of the CVL Independence and have a question on camouflage colors to be used. I want to do her during one of the 1943 raids, probably Makin but I'm not entirely for sure on that versus Rabaul or Tarawa. Anyway, the kit instructions are not clear what scheme to put the air wing in. Both the blue-gray over gray and the tricolor schemes are shown. By mid to late 1943 I would think tricolor but on Tracy White's air wing page for Independence it shows the earlier BG/gray through 1943. Navsource pictures look more like tricolor but it's hard to tell. It's possible that an earlier scheme could persist in a war zone well beyond the change date so I wondered.

Also, I'm interested in applying aircraft numbers, etc on the air wing. The kit decals only have national insignia so does anyone have a source for these decals? Or know what those markings should be so I could try to cobble them together from other sets?

Thanks everyone.

Steve.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
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Location: EG48
Thus demonstrated that the *best* way to find out where you are wrong is to post it online. :doh_1:

I initially thought I had a typo in my notes (I did) that caused it, but now I see that I was just flat-out wrong. Initially I'd thought her aircraft were two-tone on shakedown and tri-color at some point after that; Essex and Yorktown's air groups were that way. Closer re-examination of the air group on shake-down, however, reveals that even at that point most of the aircraft are in tri-color and not two-tone. They should have all been tri-color for all of the combat actions in 1943.

*Edit* - Forgot to answer the numbers bit.

I've got a couple of photos of them spotting aircraft forward following her torpedoing and they show a bit of a mish-mash. Most of the aircraft have a single-digit number, but not all. I can see a TBF and F6F, both of which have a white 6 on the tail, but TBFs numbered 57 and 58 and F6Fs numbered 54 and 59. It appears that the F6Fs with the two-digit numbers have them only on the tails, whereas the single digits are also copied under the canopy. TBFs have the numbers on the tail and in two cases I see numbers just ahead of the cocard on the fuselage, but they're both single-digit numbers and I'm not sure if it was any different for the two-digit numbers. It's really hard to tell for sure due to the angles of the aircraft and folded wings.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:59 am
Posts: 22
dr207 wrote:
Hi all. I just got the fantastic 1/350 scale Dragon kit of the CVL Independence and have a question on camouflage colors to be used. I want to do her during one of the 1943 raids, probably Makin but I'm not entirely for sure on that versus Rabaul or Tarawa. Anyway, the kit instructions are not clear what scheme to put the air wing in. Both the blue-gray over gray and the tricolor schemes are shown. By mid to late 1943 I would think tricolor but on Tracy White's air wing page for Independence it shows the earlier BG/gray through 1943. Navsource pictures look more like tricolor but it's hard to tell. It's possible that an earlier scheme could persist in a war zone well beyond the change date so I wondered.

Also, I'm interested in applying aircraft numbers, etc on the air wing. The kit decals only have national insignia so does anyone have a source for these decals? Or know what those markings should be so I could try to cobble them together from other sets?

Thanks everyone.

Steve.


Hi Steve
The CVL-22 made these early raids over a very short span of time in 1943. Marcus 31 Aug / 1 Sept, Wake 5 Oct , Rabaul 11 Nov , and Tarawa 18-20 Nov where she took the torpedo. No change in hull colors during this period of time for the ship, and the ship had two Air Groups on board at that time - Air Group 22 and VF6. The Air Wing / ship had transitioned from the F4F Wildcat to the Hellcat just prior to the Marcus raid, and during these raids VC-22 (VT-22) supplied the TBF / TBM Avengers (typically 9 on board), with a mix of VF-6 and VF-6 & VF-22 Hellcats (typically 24 on board).
So accurate aircraft markings should reflect that.

During the time of the Wake Raid the National Insignia was in transition from the Star within the Circle to the new Insignia with the Bars added on either side. The wing placement also changed. There is a flight deck photo (8 October) of the aircraft in transition with some planes with the new Insignia and some planes still in transition with both the old and new markings (freshly painted) on the same plane, and some aircraft with the old Insignia over-painted with primer, giving the temporary appearance of a Japanese "Meatball". This caused some big problems for a few pilots. They were not very fond of "friendly" fire.

The New Insignia is on the top of the port wing, the old Insignia WAS on the top of the starboard wing.
There is a White two digit aircraft number on the vertical stabilizers and these same numbers prominent on the shake down (with Air Group 22 on board) near the cockpit in large white numbers appear to have been over-painted with primer. If the CVL is being built for the shake down period, the A/C paint should have those large letters on the empennage / fuselage.

The colors are hard to discern as they are black & white photos. They are light on the lower surfaces of the airframe and darker on the upper side and top surfaces. And in the case of the October photo, the paint condition looks pretty bleak (well worn or dirty, perhaps exhaust, perhaps primer - most likely a mix of all).
On the shake down, in comparison, they looked a lot more pristine.

For the folks building her after coming out of the yards in mid 1944, all the above is changed both with the ship and the A/C.

I hope this helps.
John G. Lambert
CVL22history@conwaycorp.net


Last edited by John G. Lambert on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:29 pm 
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This was an accidental duplicate.


Last edited by John G. Lambert on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:59 am
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dr207 wrote:
Hi all. I just got the fantastic 1/350 scale Dragon kit of the CVL Independence and have a question on camouflage colors to be used. I want to do her during one of the 1943 raids, probably Makin but I'm not entirely for sure on that versus Rabaul or Tarawa. Anyway, the kit instructions are not clear what scheme to put the air wing in. Both the blue-gray over gray and the tricolor schemes are shown. By mid to late 1943 I would think tricolor but on Tracy White's air wing page for Independence it shows the earlier BG/gray through 1943. Navsource pictures look more like tricolor but it's hard to tell. It's possible that an earlier scheme could persist in a war zone well beyond the change date so I wondered.

Also, I'm interested in applying aircraft numbers, etc on the air wing. The kit decals only have national insignia so does anyone have a source for these decals? Or know what those markings should be so I could try to cobble them together from other sets?

Thanks everyone.

Steve.


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