Calling all Borodino (Бородино) class (Tsushima 1905) fans

[DariusP]

Well, we will never know how black "soot" was but I will happily settle for "coal black". And I have never seen it described as anything other than "black".

[Guest]

Yep, but this "soot" was explained / named to be in fact "un gris tr�s fonc� � l'anthracite" by the French Engineers in the Franco-Russian Yard on Galerniy Island who were inflicted in the battleship Oriol ... source are different, but one is also to be found in the French Yard who built Tsarevich.

Where did you read this?

[Christian M.]

For example in "Ships of the Imperial Russian Navy 1892�1917" from Alexander Taras

[Kronma 77]

For example... Alexander Taras.

This is the author, who can not be trusted.
He never worked in the Navy Archives, so he writes absolutes stupidity.
The Imperial Russian Navy used the classic (standard) black paint (not the "dark-dark-dark-dark gray"), and don`t use any fantastic "anthracite.".

[Christian M.]

Ok .... thank you for that info Kromma.

It is hard to get any of the often named Russian books here in Germany with theme of Imperial Russian Navy, So I was lucky that a colleague had it and lent it me.

What is about this book, also mmore fairy tales including or ok? Anyone any experience?

"The Imperial Russian Navy" from Anthony J. Watts

I found it with different prices reaching from 42.00 GBP on amazon UK up to 420.00 USD on amazon US (ehm, some error at someone here I guess?). Before I buy this, I better ask now.

About Black or not Black or "how black" in general:

As previously told, black in general becomes by weathering and fading always a more or less dark grey shade. How fast depends on several factors, for example type of color, used thinner and other things.
But in general no black stays really black after some time and this is proofed by countless examples. Only to name one: At most NATO members, military vehicles are painted in Forrest Green base, Leather Brown and Black on it. Even these 3 colors are CARC colors (Chemical Agent Resistant Color), the black is i.e. on German and US vehicles faded to dark grey after only some month.

Out of this and because I will not build a Borodino or other ship fresh painted from Yard, the fading and weathering effect will (and in my opinion must) be included in painting = there is no pitch black on any Russian ship.

[newshipmodeler]

Lots of good info here. I think both are points are valid. Even if something was pure black like a pair of shoes an artist would never use black except as a shadow color. You must use a dark gray in order to have darker recesses. No different than using a pure white. One needs a drop of ...something in pure white to create a shadow color. A pure white should only be the brightest highlite color.

Thanks for the Retvizan/Sevastapol color inputs. Was hoping the Sevastapol was for a moment at least....the dark olive. Would have been far more fun to paint.

[momcil]

Hi, I was also evaluating the question of the black color even if have no additional info about the original color. But let's say it was black... now I think that the weathering due to a long exposure at sea should be considered. Another aspect is the pure technical representation of a black object in scale and in a representative model. Just for a "joke" here is a picture B/W of my mobile which indeed is 100% black. But as you can see due to the lightning the object itself appears far from the pure black (I have drawn a black rectangle in the middle). Moreover there is the scale effect which was already discussed.

So considering all these aspects, my advice is to start with a grey color not extremely dark and than darken all the recesses and highlighting all the edges and horizontal parts (turret roofs, etc...) step by step. One can go on with these processes until a pleasant result is achieved.

[DariusP]

Yes, pure black will make details disappear and model will look pretty boring so experimenting with colors and highlights seems a way to go

[Togo's men]

Hi this is Togo's men,

I wonder if someone in this forum could help and provide me the detailed visual information of Russian Borodino-class ships such as Borodino, Oryol, Knyaz Suvorov, and Imperator Aleksandr III. What I need is the detail 3D info or drawings of the view under waterline for the 4 ships. As you may know that these are sister ships but I heard that there are few different places found but need to know them visually in order to build these 4 full hull ships by myself. Does anybody could help me out on this subject? Your kind support and information will be greatly appreciated�

Regards,
Togo's men

[DariusP]

I'm not sure what do you mean by "detail 3D info or drawings of the view under waterline"? Hull lines? Views of the hull bottom? If so, I haven't seen any 3D renderings of those ships. I do have hull lines of Orel and Borodino (their hull lines were identical) but I haven't seen hull lines of Suvorov or Alex III.

[tmodelarmy]

Tell me please, guys, Borodino and Oriol was identical ships? Worth buying both Kits?

[Guest]

The kits is basically the same for Orel and Borodino, the only difference is the funnels used. But the funnels are wrong nyway and need to be replaced. There were many differences between Orel and Borodino which are not reflected in the kits. Actually, the kit that for the basis for these models is a bit of a mix of different ships from the class. It resembles Borodino most of all from the class, but has some elements wrong for that ship. I don't think it's worth buying both kits unless you want to do a lot of scratch building for Orel.

I've always hoped a more accurate plastic kit of either of these ships would become available, but sadly it hasn't happened.

[Guest]

You can see some of the work needed to make an accurate Orel here

http://karopka.ru/forum/forum263/topic6870/

and Borodino here

http://karopka.ru/forum/forum263/topic6699/

[tmodelarmy]

thank you

[drdoom1337]

is poor deck fitment the standard on these kits? I'm finding I have to shave quite a bit of material off to get the deck to sit flush. Currently working on an Eastern Express Borodino.