Calling all USS Hornet CV-8 fans

[Angeliccypher]

Thanks Mike. That is what I suspected. But there are no after market Mk 44s right?

[Michael Vorrasi]

Thanks Mike. That is what I suspected. But there are no after market Mk 44s right?

LOL, I can't even get good clear photos of one!

[Angeliccypher]

I have a couple that are fair. I can upload them to here tonight when I get home if you like.

[Angeliccypher]

Here are the two photos I have courtesy of Fred Branyan via navsource:

[Michael Vorrasi]

Here are the two photos I have courtesy of Fred Branyan via navsource:

01MK44[1].jpg

01MK44a[1].jpg

Well, those are the two best photos I have seen yet of Mk 44's. Which I could get more info. They seem to be purely optical, basically, a sight slaved to the power mechanism of the gun mount they control, but what type of ranging and lead computing capability they might have had remains a mystery. I'm fairly sure these had no capability to synch with the FD radar sets on the Mk 37's.

[Angeliccypher]

Glad I could help add to your collection:). Fred was suggesting the Veteran Kreigsmarine fire control directors. As they look similar and it would be hard to see the difference in 1/350.

[Smitty]

The Mk 44 where only for local control of the 1.1s. They were not hooked into the Mk37 system.
The 5"/38 could only be controled by the MK 37 system. Had a few disscussions with him over the years till he "Went West"
My Uncle was a FC on Hornet he was a plank owner along with his brother who also was a plank owner, but was a Bombadier in
Torpedo Squadron 8.

Best,
Joe

[KevinH]

Got more pics in the WIP section

Test fitting the layout of the diorama of the HORNET loading the B-25's at Alameda

[Angeliccypher]

Okay I have started working on the planes in my build and have noticed how inaccurate the Trumpter decals are. Several pages ago in this thread some (Mike I think) set me straight on what planes had what type of markings and good descriptions of those. I saw Starfighter Decals has a Midway set but it does not seem to be entirely accurate either. Anyone else have any bright ideas?

[Michael Vorrasi]

Got more pics in the WIP section

Test fitting the layout of the diorama of the HORNET loading the B-25's at Alameda

Kevin, you might want to reconsider the direction you have the B-25's facing. Here is the only photo I have ever found of the actual loading at Alameda. I scanned it from an old magazine. Poor quality, but best we have.

[Michael Vorrasi]

Okay I have started working on the planes in my build and have noticed how inaccurate the Trumpter decals are. Several pages ago in this thread some (Mike I think) set me straight on what planes had what type of markings and good descriptions of those. I saw Starfighter Decals has a Midway set but it does not seem to be entirely accurate either. Anyone else have any bright ideas?

Check with Jennings Heilig. He made some really nice sets for the Hornet in 1/350. They had all known nose art and correct serial numbers. Don't know if they are still available. If you are doing a Midway version, I'm not sure what you find wrong with the Starfighter set.http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-5543458166 ... 41_6142441 . This set is for Midway to Santa Cruz. They did an earlier sheet for Prewar to Tokyo Raid, but it does not seem to be available any longer in 1/350. It still shows up in the 1/480 sets for Revell kits.

[Angeliccypher]

There are three and 1/2 things wrong with the set for Midway. Starting with the half as it is not really "wrong". There are enough for 18 planes of each squadron. I need more than that to do the launch right. The other three:

1) Torpedo 8 did not use the ship number in their plane identification markings. Easy to fix.

2) Fighting 8 did not have hyphens in their ID markings. A little more challenging to fix but doable.

3) This one is the biggest issue as it is not easily fixable in any way that I am aware of. Scouting 8 used white ID markings instead of the black that everyone else did.

Is Jennings a member here or is there contact information for him somewhere that you can PM me?

Thanks Mike!

[Angeliccypher]

Here are supporting pictures.

[Cliffy B]

Found these while rooting around online, http://hamptonroadsnavalmuseum.blogspot ... -1941.html

Some nice high-res shots of CV-8 at NNSY tied up after after launching, builder's trials, and getting her deck striped. Click on each one for the larger version.

[Angeliccypher]

Fred Branyan and I have been digging through pictures but can find no evidence of signal flags being used during launch exercises on any date. Does anyone have anything contrary to this? The date I am looking for in particular is 4 June '42.

Thanks,

[Michael Vorrasi]

Fred Branyan and I have been digging through pictures but can find no evidence of signal flags being used during launch exercises on any date. Does anyone have anything contrary to this? The date I am looking for in particular is 4 June '42.

Thanks,

I looked through my stash. The closest Midway photos I could find that showed the signal halyards were of the landing accident where the island was peppered with 50Cal. The signal halyards are all empty. No conclusive evidence either way though, for launch on 4JUN42.

[John W Ford]

Dear Hornet Folks,

My name is John W. Ford. I am known within the military art world and have contributed well over 200 2� x 3� acrylic paintings for Navy and Marine Corps museums, US Air Force museums, the Pentagon, and the Smithsonian Institute. I also painted a 42� long mural upon a wall of the Distinguished Visitors Lounge on Travis AFB, California.

Recently I was asked to produce a 1:100 scale replica of the USS Hornet, CV-8 by the folks at the Jimmy Doolittle Air and Space Museum. The replica is to feature all decks on separate platforms displaying all spaces and machinery.

I secured a set of line drawing blueprints of the Yorktown, however it only depicts placement of some of the major pieces of machinery in the machinery spaces and fire rooms. I need much more detailed information than the line drawing blueprints possess. For instance, on the CV-8 there were crew urinals on the second and third elevation of the island. Were they fresh or seawater fed? Were they a continuous flow design or a valve design?

Since this replica will become a part of the USS Hornet�s history preservation it must be as accurate as humanly possible. I estimate the project to take at least three years to complete so time is not of the essence at present during the research phase. That said, I have already begun cutting the deck forms to be used to construct a mold to produce a fiberglass hull.

I have just purchased Book-067, Enterprise and BK-031, Hornet from the Maryland Silver Company for references. I would appreciate any and all information, or leads to information, that you might be aware regarding the detailed plans or blueprints for the USS Hornet, CV-8. The past posts regarding the errors in commercial models has been very helpful thus far.

Sincerely,

John W. Ford

[John W.]

John Ford -
Welcome to the group and good luck on your noble quest. If you can do it in three years, my hat's off to you! I've been working on my 1/350 HORNET for many years, and I figure that with a model that's about 3.5 times as big in every dimension your model will be 42.9 times as hard as mine.
For reference material I believe the Maryland Silver plans are probably the best one can get. They are not perfect, but they have far more detail than any I have found, and they are USN blueprints so they cover most everything - except, maybe all the urinal locations. They do show interesting details - one I like to point out is that all the exterior decks and catwalks on the island are perforated metal. Even in 1/350, this detail is noticeable, let alone in 1/100. This does show in the MD Silver plans (damn it!) so I have had to include that detail.
I have still found some of the details hard to figure with just plans. Problem is, they are all drawn at right angles to the three major axes of the ship. Some details, for example the catwalks along the flight deck edge, really need to be seen from an oblique angle to see how they fit with each other. Photos are good, but often can be too dark or at too great a distance to help resolve details.
Depending upon where you live, one idea I'd suggest considering is to travel to the Virginia Air and Space Museum in Hampton, VA, where they have the builder's model for YORKTOWN - all sixteen feet of it. That will really help visualize some details that may be challenging to understand on the plans.
Remember too that the MD SIlver plans show HORNET as-built, there were several noticeable changes made to her just after she commissioned. Many - probably all - of those changes are detailed in earlier pages of this thread.

[John W.]

I'm pretty sure the external lines I'm interested in are for AVGAS (pictures below). I know the AVGAS internal storage tanks on YORKTOWNs are located below the water line and under the most forward set of hangar deck roller doors. The first picture shows HORNET from starboard and I have (crudely) highlighted both lines in red.

At first I couldn't see if/where the line to the stern on the port side was located, but I think these two photos show its location - at least on the third photo, HORNET's location.

So my questions are:
What was the purpose of the lines? Move fuel to the flight deck to service aircraft there? Pump the fuel back to the storage tanks if an attack is imminent?
Where do they terminate? The lines seem to end up well above the hangar deck floor.
Am I right in indicating where the port line runs?
Was this line added as the result of our experience or from the Brits'?
Any addition color commentary as to purpose is welcome. At first blush, these lines would seem much more vulnerable to shrapnel and splinter damage than if they were internal. Of course, an internal rupture would spread AVGAS interior to the hull where it might be a far greater problem (can you say LEXINGTON?).
Details, details. Work on HORNET progresses as Spring finally spreads over our area.

[Michael Vorrasi]

I'm pretty sure the external lines I'm interested in are for AVGAS (pictures below). I know the AVGAS internal storage tanks on YORKTOWNs are located below the water line and under the most forward set of hangar deck roller doors. The first picture shows HORNET from starboard and I have (crudely) highlighted both lines in red.

AVGAS line stbd.jpg

At first I couldn't see if/where the line to the stern on the port side was located, but I think these two photos show its location - at least on the third photo, HORNET's location.

AVGAS line port3.jpg

AVGAS line port.jpg

So my questions are:
What was the purpose of the lines? Move fuel to the flight deck to service aircraft there? Pump the fuel back to the storage tanks if an attack is imminent?
Where do they terminate? The lines seem to end up well above the hangar deck floor.
Am I right in indicating where the port line runs?
Was this line added as the result of our experience or from the Brits'?
Any addition color commentary as to purpose is welcome. At first blush, these lines would seem much more vulnerable to shrapnel and splinter damage than if they were internal. Of course, an internal rupture would spread AVGAS interior to the hull where it might be a far greater problem (can you say LEXINGTON?).
Details, details. Work on HORNET progresses as Spring finally spreads over our area.

Hi John,

The hull lines are av-gas lines. Move fuel to aircraft and yes, back to tanks, purged with nitrogen before air attack. US carriers had fueling stations located along the catwalks. See the Essex class thread. There was a series of posts with photos of one of these stations within last few months. As for port line you circled, cannot say for sure. It might be fuel, or a water main line or it might be wiring conduit. Note one of the three booms for the HF antenna array just to the left of the left most red circle. Best I have for now. I'll look for more.