WWI USN Dazzle colors?

GPBurdell · Post by **GPBurdell** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:15 pm

Does anyone know or have a reference for the colors used in WWI destroyer dazzle camouflage? Is it the same as the WWII measure 31 (Haze grey 5-H, Ocean Grey 5-O, Dull Black 82, Navy Blue 5-N)?
I am backdating Mirage's USS Ward to her original configuration and would really like to do her 1918 dazzle paint job.

thanks
Bill Osborne (GPBurdell)

NCMac · Post by **NCMac** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:53 pm

Bill,

The colors may have been similar but those Navy paints you have listed were formulated during World War II. I've seen some information on World War I "dazzle" schemes but not a lot about colors. My impression is the colors were "brighter" and more varied than during World War II.

Don't know how many of these you already know, but perhaps some helpful information:

http://www.gotouring.com/razzledazzle/a ... azzle.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage
http://www.kristiangoddard.net/Blog/Daz ... inting.htm
http://publicdomainreview.org/2012/04/19/dazzle-ships/

Good luck & submit some photos of your finished model please.

Mac

GPBurdell · Post by **GPBurdell** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:59 am

Thanks Mac. I did not have most of the links you sent. the only color reference I have been able to find is the four-stacker in the attached painting. I think I'll wind up with a combination of black grey and white.

Dan Banks · Post by **Dan Banks** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:01 am

A gentleman named Ron Smith had a website a couple of years ago that he sold camo patterns for many US naval and civilian vessels from WWI period. I saved quite a few and and looked through them this morning. Nothing specific for Ward but he had 5 schemes for "Wickes/Little" class destroyers and they all used number 1 grey, number 2 blue, and black. The colors are matched to the White Ensign colorcoats line of US/Royal navy WWI colors. I hear they are having trouble shipping enamel paints out of Europe, but you might find a distributor here that still carries them.

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:17 pm

Yes, there is no correlation between the WWI and WWII paints. Completely different formulas. I have a lot of time researching WWII USN Camouflage, but haven't touched WWI yet (mainly so I don't get too diluted) so I can't really help otherwise.

GPBurdell · Post by **GPBurdell** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:50 pm

Dan Banks wrote:A gentleman named Ron Smith had a website a couple of years ago that he sold camo patterns for many US naval and civilian vessels from WWI period. I saved quite a few and and looked through them this morning. Nothing specific for Ward but he had 5 schemes for "Wickes/Little" class destroyers and they all used number 1 grey, number 2 blue, and black. The colors are matched to the White Ensign colorcoats line of US/Royal navy WWI colors. I hear they are having trouble shipping enamel paints out of Europe, but you might find a distributor here that still carries them.

Thanks Dan. Would it be possible for you to send me a scan of the Wicks/Little schemes or give me a link for Ron Smith? My email is Burdell2073@yahoo.com.

Dan Banks · Post by **Dan Banks** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:40 am

I tryed your e-mail but it didn't work. I'll be back Sunday and try again. Dan

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:07 pm

GPBurdell wrote:
Dan Banks wrote:A gentleman named Ron Smith had a website a couple of years ago that he sold camo patterns for many US naval and civilian vessels from WWI period. I saved quite a few and and looked through them this morning. Nothing specific for Ward but he had 5 schemes for "Wickes/Little" class destroyers and they all used number 1 grey, number 2 blue, and black. The colors are matched to the White Ensign colorcoats line of US/Royal navy WWI colors. I hear they are having trouble shipping enamel paints out of Europe, but you might find a distributor here that still carries them.
Thanks Dan. Would it be possible for you to send me a scan of the Wicks/Little schemes or give me a link for Ron Smith? My email is Burdell2073@yahoo.com.

Those drawings are copyrighted. Ron Smith

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:37 am

Guest wrote:Those drawings are copyrighted. Ron Smith

Thanks Ron. I suspected they might be which is why I asked Dan for your link. Are you still selling them? Bill Osborne

GPBurdell · Post by **GPBurdell** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:21 am

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:Those drawings are copyrighted. Ron Smith
Thanks Ron. I suspected they might be which is why I asked Dan for your link. Are you still selling them? Bill Osborne

Ron, is/was your site www.aa-military-research.com? I tried getting to it but it didn't work. Do you have another site? Thanks, Bill Osborne

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:23 pm

No, Ron went back to working a full-time job and shut the site down due to lack of time. E-mail coming soon.

Dan Banks · Post by **Dan Banks** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:33 pm

Hello Bill; I guess it is good my e-mail didn't get to you. I don't think it is a big deal, none of the schemes I mentioned were specific to Ward. The main point I was trying to relay was the colors were the same on all of them and these colors are matched by White Ensign colorcoats. If you want a published picture, Squadron publications "In Action #19 US Flush Deck Destroyers" has a centerspread scheme showing USS Stockton (DD-73) in a style similar to the ones I bought from Ron. The darkest color isn't black, but artisitic license?!
Hope this helps Dan

GPBurdell · Post by **GPBurdell** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:08 pm

Dan Banks wrote:Hello Bill; I guess it is good my e-mail didn't get to you. I don't think it is a big deal, none of the schemes I mentioned were specific to Ward. The main point I was trying to relay was the colors were the same on all of them and these colors are matched by White Ensign colorcoats. If you want a published picture, Squadron publications "In Action #19 US Flush Deck Destroyers" has a centerspread scheme showing USS Stockton (DD-73) in a style similar to the ones I bought from Ron. The darkest color isn't black, but artisitic license?!
Hope this helps Dan

Thanks Dan. I did find one scheme (attached) on a Navy site. Note that it has four colors, including green! That really makes me wonder since the B&W pics I have of Ward in Dazzle show four distinct shades of color. The mystery deepens!

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:57 pm

GPBurdell wrote:
Dan Banks wrote:Note that it has four colors, including green!

Five on the design sheet, not four.

GPBurdell · Post by **GPBurdell** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:23 pm

Tracy White wrote:Five on the design sheet, not four.

Right you are.

awetherhorn · Post by **awetherhorn** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:03 am

I don't know if its still relevant, but for what it's worth -
Ward carried type N12 design B.
I can supply you with both port and starboard drawings that were found in US National Archives.

Aryeh Wetherhorn

GPBurdell · Post by **GPBurdell** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:38 am

That would be great! I had tried to piece together the scheme from the few photos I could find. Having the actual drawings might actually get this project off the ground!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:55 pm

I couldn't seem to get an upload line here so I'm sending you a link to a fully shared Picasa album instead.
https://picasaweb.google.com/awetherhor ... directlink

If it doesn't work send me an regular email address and I'll try sending it there.

Aryeh Wetherhorn
Elazar, Israel

Post by **Cadman** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:34 pm

Guest wrote:I couldn't seem to get an upload line here

Aryeh, you have to log in to use the upload feature. It's only for registered users.

Dan Banks · Post by **Dan Banks** » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:58 am

Hello Bill: I don't know what paints you have settled on but WEM, the maker of colorcoats, is going out of business. Their last day is Friday 28th. They have not been able to ship enamel based paints out of the UK for about a year due to postal restrictions. If you want to use them I'd act fast, they will be like tinlettes of gold soon.

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WWI USN Dazzle colors?

WWI USN Dazzle colors?

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