Calling all USS Hornet CV-8 fans

[TimW42]

Soo.....

Anybody have any thoughts on where to get additional 1/200th aircraft? This is not a scale I usually work with so my knowledge is a bit lacking.

I hope to do up my Hornet as it looked at Santa Cruz, so I need a bunch of TBFs. Thus far, internet searches haven't availed me of much but I may be looking in the wrong place(s)!

Cheers,

Tim W.

[Tracy White]

I would say "patience." Trumpeter has not released their boxing yet, which is when I anticipate their aircraft sets will be released. I'd be happy to be wrong on that though, and have Merit or Trumpeter release the sets earlier.

[TimW42]

I would say "patience." Trumpeter has not released their boxing yet, which is when I anticipate their aircraft sets will be released. I'd be happy to be wrong on that though, and have Merit or Trumpeter release the sets earlier.

I wondered about how that was going to work--I'd never heard of "Merit," so if Trumpeter does a release also? Seems a bit odd.

Either way, it won't stop me from at least getting started, but that probably won't be for another month or two.

Regards,

Tim W.

[Tracy White]

Trumpeter is releasing theirs as CV-6. We know that much, but not details about what changes they may or may not make.

[Michael Vorrasi]

Trumpeter is releasing theirs as CV-6. We know that much, but not details about what changes they may or may not make.

They will change the name on the stern from Esso Hornet to Esso Enterprise!

[TimW42]

Trumpeter is releasing theirs as CV-6. We know that much, but not details about what changes they may or may not make.

They will change the name on the stern from Esso Hornet to Esso Enterprise!

I'm sure this has meaning for somebody.... :0

Tim W.

[Tracy White]

Esso operates a lot of tankers, and rumors are the Trumpeter licensed their hull shape for the initial CV-8 kit from Esso...

[TimW42]

Esso operates a lot of tankers, and rumors are the Trumpeter licensed their hull shape for the initial CV-8 kit from Esso...

Ok, that's a good one. I must have missed that whole discussion.

Cheers,

Tim W.

[BCBilly]

Tracy -
I was looking through my photos to answer the question above when I realized I still had the unedited version of the photo I posted of the take-off of one of Doolittle's planes. It not only lacks my scribbles, it also has a print number in the lower right corner.

HornetTakeoff - bow shot.jpg

The photo number appears to be 93020 USAF. I Googled that info but came up dry. Maybe there are several more in the same series if we could find it. I kinow I got it online, but don't recall where. DS. But maybe not as much of a DS as I had thought.

Just a side bar , but Ens George gay told me at an air show at Willow Grove NAS that he was in the cat walk during the launching of the Doolittle mission. He said he was the 3rd head from the bow of the ship and he could be seen in any of the film footage of the take off. Just a little trivia for you !

[John W.]

Looking through the pictures I have of HORNET, I was counting the number of groupings (three-raft clusters if you will) and came up with 18 - seven to port, eleven to starboard. I noticed that while there is a rack with a three-raft cluster on the focs'l deck outboard of the catapult gear enclosure, I have found no pictures that show the same rack on the port side. So my question is: is the total number of clusters eighteen and there is no rack to port on the focs'l deck?

Also, Dick J - you commented on another thread the WASP (CV-7) had two hangar deck cats while the YORKTOWNs and ESSEXs with those cats had only one. Plans I have show two tracks on (at least) HORNET which might be powered by a single ram, but two tracks nonetheless that each start and end at a different point compared to the other parallel track (i.e. it is not a pair of tracks of identical length that start and end at the same points - the tracks are staggered). Did WASP have a second track (and ram?) aft in the large roll-up doors near the aft 5" gun galleries? Curious.

[Dick J]

Also, Dick J - you commented on another thread the WASP (CV-7) had two hangar deck cats while the YORKTOWNs and ESSEXs with those cats had only one. Plans I have show two tracks on (at least) HORNET which might be powered by a single ram, but two tracks nonetheless that each start and end at a different point compared to the other parallel track (i.e. it is not a pair of tracks of identical length that start and end at the same points - the tracks are staggered). Did WASP have a second track (and ram?) aft in the large roll-up doors near the aft 5" gun galleries? Curious.

I am not sure exactly what your plans are showing. As for my previous statement, I never mentioned how many hangar cats were on any of the Yorktown's, although there should be only one on each. As I recall, I stated that 6 of the first 8 Essex's had them and that Wasp had 2 of them. (Essex and Lexington commissioned without hangar cats - they weren't ready yet. Franklin had hers removed prior to deploying, leaving Yorktown, Intrepid, Hornet, Bunker Hill and Wasp (CV-18) as the only Essex's to carry them into combat.) Wasp (CV-7) had one hangar cat in the large opening just aft of the forward 5" gun galleries and the other in the large opening just forward of the after 5" guns.

[John W.]

Dick -
Nope, you didn't make any comment on the number of hangar deck cats on the YORKTOWNs or ESSEXs, but used the term 'cat' which I took to mean a single unit. I kinda assumed that the cat worked in either direction, to port or to starboard, with a single double-acting ram. The tracks shown on the MD Silver plans for HORNET are parallel to each other, maybe six inches apart, but they are do not start and end at the same location on each side. Here's part of the plan:

With the tail of the plane on the, say, port sponson, the end of the starboard-facing track would be just under the plane's nose so it wouldn't make sense to have a longer track. Vice versa for a launch to port. There could be two separate rams, just not sure, but I figured it was just one. I know none of the cat would be below the main deck since that was the armor deck and one wouldn't want any more penetrations than absolutely necessary.

I hadn't realized WASP had two separate cats and was wondering if it was the same or different when compared to the paired tracks of the HORNET (and presumably all YORKTOWNs and all ESSEXs, though I don't have plans other than for HORNET at the current time) shown in the plans above.

Thanks for the response. Any comments on the focs'l life raft rack to port - installed or not?

[Cliffy B]

John here's plans of CV-5 and CV-7 from 1940 and 1942 respectively.

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/cv5.pdf
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/cv7.pdf

Both show the same double tracks as your plans of CV-8. Anyone with CV-9 class plans or the AOTS volume on Intrepid?

[JimRussell]

Cliffy,

Per AOTS Intrepid page 45, CV-9 class with hangar deck cats was conceptually identical to the CV-5 class hangar deck cats. Two parallel tracks, 90+% overlap, and scaling up the AOTS drawing approximately 16" center line separation.

[Cliffy B]

Thanks Jim! Looks like it settled then eh John?

[John W.]

Cliffy -
Yup, looks as if all three classes had the same arrangement of the hangar deck cats - paired tracks through the large roll-up doors just aft of the forward 5" gun decks.
Thanks for posting the plans - as always, plans are the curse for those trying to make a ship model quick and easy to build. Where is Nelson's 'blind eye' when we need it?

I've convinced myself that the life raft stack on the starboard focs'l deck was not duplicated to port for whatever opaque reason as may have existed when HORNET was completed and upgraded / refit for her transfer to PAC. There is a small 'Z' shaped platform attached to the port catapult equipment enclosure that might have interfered with locating the raft stack there. The platform to starboard is just a straight one out from the side of the catapult equipment enclosure.

[Michael Vorrasi]

Dick -
Nope, you didn't make any comment on the number of hangar deck cats on the YORKTOWNs or ESSEXs, but used the term 'cat' which I took to mean a single unit. I kinda assumed that the cat worked in either direction, to port or to starboard, with a single double-acting ram. The tracks shown on the MD Silver plans for HORNET are parallel to each other, maybe six inches apart, but they are do not start and end at the same location on each side. Here's part of the plan:

HORNET Hangar Cat001.jpg

With the tail of the plane on the, say, port sponson, the end of the starboard-facing track would be just under the plane's nose so it wouldn't make sense to have a longer track. Vice versa for a launch to port. There could be two separate rams, just not sure, but I figured it was just one. I know none of the cat would be below the main deck since that was the armor deck and one wouldn't want any more penetrations than absolutely necessary.

I hadn't realized WASP had two separate cats and was wondering if it was the same or different when compared to the paired tracks of the HORNET (and presumably all YORKTOWNs and all ESSEXs, though I don't have plans other than for HORNET at the current time) shown in the plans above.

Thanks for the response. Any comments on the focs'l life raft rack to port - installed or not?

Hi John, One hangar catapult on Hornet and her sisters. The two slots are just for shuttle orientation as this cat worked either direction. It was set up for the direction of launch accordingly, and used the shuttle slot meant for the proper direction of launch. The two tracks are for port to starboard launch and for starboard to port launch direction. It is the same unit, though. As for Wasp CV-7 , she DID have two actual hangar cats, one forward like the Yorktowns and one aft. The aft one shows in early war photos, where the folded up sponson is visible. It was removed early on, and does not show in shots taken after the yard period when she returned from the UK.

On the port side fo'c's'le, I checked many photos and found the life raft nest was only mounted on the starboard side. The series of shots taken 2/28/42 at Norfolk show the starboard nest and none on the port side. I also have a nice crisp shot of the Northampton tow, and you can see the starboard side nest in place and none to port.

[John W.]

Mike -
Thanks for clarifying both issues. I figured there could be just one ram for the paired tracks, so thanks for the confirmation. It would be interesting to know why the aft hangar cat was added to WASP since it is not shown in the plans. I know the USN was trying to figure out lots of different angles for a problem we now take for granted that we've solved, so I guess they figured it was worth experimenting with a second unit aft.
Thanks also for confirming only the starboard raft rack on the focs'l. As I opined above, it seems as though the small Z-shaped platform to port, off the catapult gear enclosure, would have interfered with placing a rack there. There's also a bollard to contend with on the deck, so my fiction is that there just wasn't room.
How's that 144th HORNET scratchbuild - necessitated by the 144th B-25s you have - coming? Planning stages? Sounded like a great idea after a few beers? Jes' wondrin.

[Michael Vorrasi]

Mike -
Thanks for clarifying both issues. I figured there could be just one ram for the paired tracks, so thanks for the confirmation. It would be interesting to know why the aft hangar cat was added to WASP since it is not shown in the plans. I know the USN was trying to figure out lots of different angles for a problem we now take for granted that we've solved, so I guess they figured it was worth experimenting with a second unit aft.
Thanks also for confirming only the starboard raft rack on the focs'l. As I opined above, it seems as though the small Z-shaped platform to port, off the catapult gear enclosure, would have interfered with placing a rack there. There's also a bollard to contend with on the deck, so my fiction is that there just wasn't room.
How's that 144th HORNET scratchbuild - necessitated by the 144th B-25s you have - coming? Planning stages? Sounded like a great idea after a few beers? Jes' wondrin.

I may need a few more beers....and maybe a belt or two of good single malt Scotch whiskey. I have been gathering 1/144 things I know I'll need when they present themselves. Actually building something so big will have to wait for my next house though. Currently scouting for new digs, but it may be a bit, but I have the time! Between Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Michael Bloomberg pissing on my rights, and an even bigger bunch of radical nuts about to take Bloomturd's throne, it is something that will happen. New York has turned into a total Marxist police state. Very red Upstate NY is nearly ready for armed rebellion. PA is looking like the only solution, because Nazi Jersey is no better. Job and family issues keep me from completely packing up and moving out of the Northeast, but retirement is now just a few years away, so plenty of building time when that arrives!

[pbudzik]

At least you guys can still buy lacquer. It's even worse in California.

Paul