1:350 Gneisenau, Op Weser�bung Apr 9th 1940

[Stein Gildberg]

Hallis!
Thanks for your kind words!
Oh, I do need a kit for a start. Actually, scratch-building superstructure isn't as hard as it looks, but to achieve a GOOD result building a hull were all shapes are curved...

Guest: You are absolutely right! After having studied photos (and counted portholes), I agree that there are differences! And they are in the area where the old anchor-holes used to be! 2 +2 portholes less on Port side, 2 less on Starboard. Also, there are 3 more portholes further down the row were Scharnhorst had none, and at the lower row, single forward hole: that one is not to be found in GN.
Normally I don�t count portholes, although I sometimes discover that there are probably some errors around.
Still- a small change that will help improve the model (well - I guess very few will notice, and even less care, but for myself this matters. That's what it's all about, isn't it!) !
These changes are easy to include, so work is underway. Thanks!

The bridge area/command tower is now in a near finished state. I decided to include gratings at the upper platform. I don�t have any evidence to prove that gratings were up there, except perhaps the photo of the damaged platform after the hit from HMS Renown on Apr 9th 1940- l have got a large picture of this, and it sure looks like some kind of gratings covering part of the hole (could of cause also be part of an emergency repair..).
Since this is 1:350, the planks cannot be to scale. I had some 1mm planks for a 1:100 Zerst�rer lying around, so I split two of them and cut to fit the length. Anyhow a great exercise!
The armored command post (upper) is not yet glued (or finished).

Instruments are Veteran Models

Last picture is my SCH. just for comparison. (With a planked upper platform ...).
Note that the stretch sprue footperts in GN are more close to the real thing than the PE-ones in SCH.

QUESTIONS:
1) Do any of you know whether GN had protecting nets in April 1940, like SCH had, to protect the crews of the 150mm singles from empty cases from the 105 AA?

2) Do any of you know the purpose of the square panels attached to the Command Tower (they can also be found in German Destroyers at the rear funnel?) See picture.

[LE BOSCO]

hello Stein

your Geisenau is a pure marvel ,I like it very impressive work
good luck for the rest the artiste
cheers
Nicolas

[Apophysis]

Hello Stein!
Your Gneisenau looks really fantastic. A real treat! If I only do half as good then I'm happy!

Your loyal fan!

[Channell]

Really impressive work! It sure looks bigger than 1/350!

[Guest]

QUESTIONS:
1) Do any of you know whether GN had protecting nets in April 1940, like SCH had, to protect the crews of the 150mm singles from empty cases from the 105 AA?

Dear Stein,

I don't know about April 1940, ,but there is footage of Gneisenau in manoevers with Scharnhorst in summer 1939 and Gneisenau has these nets. She is in "Scheme 2" in Asmussen's book. Interestingly, she has steel deck around the 105 guns.

[Stein Gildberg]

Good news!

I managed to create the angle at the outer bridge-wings. Not by any reconstruction, but (since the change is so small), simply by the use of a file! See picture.

I have also finished the changes in position and numbers of portholes in the bow-section.See picture


Thanks for input regarding safety nets. They are in Asmussens book too. So I have decided to use them � although I have not found and photo to prove it. It simply makes sense, and they are present in SCH too at the same time.
The planked battery deck! I would assume that the planking was done (as the book also says: Mid 1939-1940) before the war started in September. To spend time and energy on extra planking of a ship�s deck in wartime does not make sense to me (well, they still did so in Bismarck and Tirpitz�)
Films are seldom a good reference since they often contain a mix of film-clips in different time.
I think we will not get any further.

Guns:
Main battery: A and C-turrets have small handrails in front of the gun roofs. These are not to be found in SCH.
Also, the bins on each side of A and C (for cleaning rods etc) are not to be found in GN.
Note the small device at turret C front: So far no one has been able to find out what this is the use for this. Loudspeaker?

And if you care to see: My own photos from two years ago.Turret C, still in place at Austr�tt/�rlandet at the entrance to the Trondheims Fjord. The complete turret is there + additonal armour plates and a door at the rear of the turret! Blue shells are not Practice but Armour Piecering.

[Hallis]

Good work on the superstructure. Also great pics of the turret.

Totally unrelated question. Did the germans load cordite in brass cartridges behind the projectile and fire them as such (seems like a really good idea)? Or were those just storage containers for transport? I know that British and american ships loaded canvas bags of cordite individually. And the British made a real big mess of it at Jutland because of that.

[Stein Gildberg]

Shane!
Interesting question. Being an ex artillery officer (Army) I shall try to explain:
Germany generally uses sliding mechanisms in their big guns while British and Americans generally use a screw / threaded plug design.
There are advantages and disadvantages in both designs.
The sliding block will normally require a brass cartridge to seal the chamber tight. This is not needed for the screw.
A cartridge makes it more easy to protect the powder, from moisture, blast etc. But a brass cartridge in a big gun often contains only a part of the propelling charge: First you load one or two bags of powder into the chamber, then the cartridge.

In the Gneisenau 283 mm gun system SK C/34, the propelling charge consists of the brass case (74,8 kg powder) plus a bagged fore charge (42,4kg powder).
This would propel the 300kg AP projectile to 890 mps, giving a range of close to 41000m (Bismarck 800 kg AP to �only� 35 550 meters).
Data: Skwiot: "German Naval Guns 1939-1945".

From Wikipedia:
The Breech mechanism closes and seals the gun barrel's powder chamber after the projectile and powder charge are loaded.
The breechblock, the principal part of the breech mechanism, is either a sliding-block or a threaded plug design. The breechblock must open and close quickly while making a high-pressure gas-tight seal. A typical gas pressure approaching 50,000 psi is found in the chamber and gun barrel shortly after the powder charge is ignited.
Weapons smaller than 155mm are usually of one of several sliding-block designs. Larger weapons are usually of one of several interrupted-screw designs. For rapid-fire guns, a sliding breech-block is commonly used which may open and close automatically as the gun is fired. Recent large weapons have incorporated automatic or semi-automatic breechblocks, more than doubling the weapon's rate-of-fire. Using Time On Target methods such as "Multiple Round Simultaneous Impact (MRSI)",[1][2][3] one modern 155mm gun[4] can fire eight projectiles, with all eight landing on the same target within four seconds, a task that normally requires firing eight individual guns at the correct calculated times.

[Hallis]

So short answer,, yes and yes, lol.. Yes most of the charge is loaded while in the brass cartridge, but yes they also stuff a bagged charge in there beforehand. I'm really familiar with the screw breech but not with the sliding breech. Wonder if it's like the rolling block breech that was in my HK91.

[Guest]

Good news!

I managed to create the angle at the outer bridge-wings. Not by any reconstruction, but (since the change is so small), simply by the use of a file! See picture.

I have also finished the changes in position and numbers of portholes in the bow-section.See picture

Thanks for input regarding safety nets. They are in Asmussens book too. So I have decided to use them � although I have not found and photo to prove it. It simply makes sense, and they are present in SCH too at the same time.
The planked battery deck! I would assume that the planking was done (as the book also says: Mid 1939-1940) before the war started in September. To spend time and energy on extra planking of a ship�s deck in wartime does not make sense to me (well, they still did so in Bismarck and Tirpitz�)
Films are seldom a good reference since they often contain a mix of film-clips in different time.
I think we will not get any further.

Well done on the changes, you are doing a great job! Yes I agree that folm must be used with extreme caution, but in this case the shot from Gneisenau pans very jumpily to Scharnhorst, where you can just make out the angled funnel top. The next shot is of Scharhorst's crew running the line up the deck up to her new atlantic bow. She is still wearing the badge at the bow and seems to have a solid dark top to turret "a" and something on turret "b". I think this film evidence is fairly solid. Also as you say, it makes sense as Scharnhorst also had these.

As for Gn having a planked deck at this time, I would be curious to know what evidence Asmussen based his drawing on. It is possible that Gn had wooden decking for Norway, but as you have to be careful of film footage and photographs, you also have to be careful of digital reconstructions.

But one thing, did Gn have a horn above the admiral's bridge? I haven't seen one in any photo..

[Guest]

or rather, the images with a horn seem to be with shortened admiral bridge wings..

[Stein Gildberg]

You are right G! Of course there is no horn there- at least not in April 1940! And it is no longer in my model either!!

Hallis: No, the HK 91 with it's two rollers is a very different construction. I know it very well from my army time. We call it AG3, simillar to the G3 in 7,62X51 NATO (G3 is no longer in service in NO Army).
The picture (my own) will explain the construction of the type of breach-block we are talkingabout here. The gun is one of the reserve guns from Bismarck/Tirpitz, and is installed in M�vig/Kristiansand, Norway. You will find 3 of them there, one as a superb museum!

(We even have bigger guns in Norway: A battery of 406mm guns for the planned , but never realized H-class battleships. Installed in Harstad/Norway in housing simillar to the ones in mt picture. Also a museum - of cause!

Stein

[Hallis]

That's very similar to the breech in an American M1 Abrams tank. And a lot of field artillery pieces.

[Stein Gildberg]

eeh Yes... Because the smooth-bore 120mm Abrams gun is a German gun in the first place...

The threaded screw that I am referring to can be seen a lot of places on the net. This mechanism is used in anything from Field Artillery to 16 inch US battleships.

Stein

[Apophysis]

Hello Stein!

It is gratifying and frightening at the same time as you notice every little detail and implement!

Ein dreifach Hurra auf die Kriegsmarine!

Dirk

[Guest]

here is a screengrab of Gneisenau's nets summer 1939 for you.

[Stein Gildberg]

Thanks for the screengrab G. That settles that question!

Secondary battery:
Turrets no 1 both sides have no AA on top. You therefore need to build a periscope on top of the turrets similar to the rear turrets both sides.
Nice additions are handgrips for entering the turrets (this was done through the hatch on top of the turret). From a LionRoar Bismarck PE-kit.
Two containers (gear and life-vests?) on top of each of the four turrets. GN only.
Ventilation openings rear side of the turrets was marked by pen after painting.

In this picture also:
Note the two hatches (with framework) to lower deck. These are not shown in Kagero�s book, but if you look at the picture (b/w in early camouflage) of GN in Norway 1940, you clearly see one of the hatches just in front of the rear 150 mm turret � just like the ones in SCH.

Passageway to the opposite side of the main deck.

Turret color was �Gelb� = Yellow for first part of Weser�bung (see picture of original document specifying this.
The document also specifies that Swastika Flags (Hakenkreuzflaggen) are to be painted bow and stern (IFF signs for friendly aircraft). No measures are given.
Of this reason the size and form of these markings are different from ship to ship.

[Stein Gildberg]

Then to the funnel:
This is in some respect quite different from the one in Scharnhorst. The most visible changes are as follows:

In front of the funnel is a ventilation tower that must be scratched. This has some minor implication for the boat cradle, so you need to adjust.
Lockers and installations around the funnel are different, and there are no exercise guns either side. Behind the funnel there are platforms with ladders etc that you need to scratch.
And further aft you will find all in all 9 ventilation tower that all needs scratching�
Also, the mainmast in Gneisenau is positioned at the funnel�s platform.
I built this mast from brass tubing and PE as I did with the foremast.
You also need to modify the searchlight platform slightly (at the aft side). Also, lockers etc are different.
Underneath the platform, observe that the channel for HE-antennas is shaped and positioned somewhat different than in SCH.

The ventilation towers are built up from 0.15 and 0.3mm Plasticard. Sides rounded off before gluing. Corners rounded off after gluing.
Ventilator caps/hats are made from Plasticard square rods cut and filed down to right shape.

Next: Painting the funnel

[Apophysis]

Hello Stein!

What can I say other than: Could not be better!
Your work is absolutely amazing and a great incentive for me!

Cheers!
Dirk

[PetrolGator]

Brilliant. If anything can convince Dragon that they need to make a Gneisenau, this can.