What-If a postwar (unsunk) Bismarck...

[Seasick]

Tirpitz has more 37mm flak no single 20mm, but did have some of the 20mm quads. In 1944 some of the 37mm were removed and replaced with 40mm flak.

[ijnfleetadmiral]

From Shipbucket's "Kriegsmarine 1946" thread...a third Bismarck-class from about 1946.

http://imageshack.us/a/img832/7381/bbwaldersee1945.png

[Channell]

From Shipbucket's "Kriegsmarine 1946" thread...a third Bismarck-class from about 1946.

http://imageshack.us/a/img832/7381/bbwaldersee1945.png

That's actually kinda cool looking!

Yes, I'm still thinking about this... I've wondered what a Bismarck would look like with an enclosed bridge around the conning tower (a la the USN Iowa class ships)...

[Admhawk]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the back story. Just modernize it. Put on a mast like the Bremen class, add some Thales radars, OTO guns, VLS modules, stealth features on the superstructure, SeaRAMs and NH90 helicopters. Bring it right up to modern standards and turn it into a super battleship with the modern German navy. Lots of scratch building.

[M Dunham]

What about building her "as if",to follow the design studies of the early '30s? What if she was laid down a couple years earlier,and completed,say,in '37? No Atlantic bow,no funnel cap,no radar,different a/c,storage,and catapult configurations,plus a much reduced antiaircraft suite? I have seen old 1:1250 sketches by Breyer,but more info. would be needed,of course. Just thinking,a very impressive, much cleaner appearance,yet still the Bismarck.
Mike

[GMG4RWF]

... like how the Rodney was literally shaking itself apart everytime she shot her big guns ...

weak British construction.

... getting the Prinz Eugen across the Atlantic after the war was a major project because of mechanical problems ...

That was a case of the US Sailors not reading German or being trained on the German high pressure machinery. the equipment was good just improperly maintained.

The 2 possibilities I see is 1) she's in port (perhaps Konigsberg or Danzig) as the Russians overrun the port. Stalin holds onto the ship (even though the Russians weren't able to take care of the GZ) After he's gone, she's then turned back over to East Germany - perhaps with Russian mods, or after Peal Harbor, Hitler doesn't stupidly declare war on the US. the war splits between US/Japan & Europe. Germany would still have fallen but overrun fully by Russia (maybe even France) the KM flees before the Cossack hoards to Norway and then to US as Germany falls to Russia. Japan falls to US & cold war starts. The US upgrades Bismarck as flagship of the "Free German Navy in Exile".

btw if Bismarck had survived to '44-45 she would'of had the same AA upgrades as Tirpitz so that would be the base model to use.

[GMG4RWF]

I would think with Russian upgrades - initially: replace 105mm twins with Russian 10cm Twins. strip light AA and replace with 45mm Quads (later 57mm Quads). Maybe replace the 15cm twins with imported Swedish Bofors 6"DP. or perhaps replace all 105 & 150s with 13cm/58 DP turrets (5-7) also a scattering of 25mm over-under mounts. Maybe move aft superstructure forward in-place of the hanger, 1-2 SAN-1 mounts forward of the aft turrets (or - I hate to suggest - in-place of X turret). the forward (or aft) 15cm turrets could be replaced by SS-N-2s the forward ones later replaced by SS-N-22s or a triple SS-N-9, alternately the hanger could be initially retained or stripped off and latter replaced by a SS-N-3 quad turntable rack firing broadside. SA-N-4s could later be mounted in-place of any of the 105/150 mounts as-well.

[GMG4RWF]

As for US upgrade - prob same as US cruisers. Perhaps replace the 15cm twins with twin Mk16 6"/47 DP turrets (as in the Worcester-class cruiser), though I think Mk42 5"/54 in-place of the 105 twins. and Mk33 3"/50 twin mounts in place of light AA mounts. Terrier Mk10 twin launchers fore & aft of the 4 end 15cm turrets with Mag housing in-place of the turrets/Mags. These turrets and the central 15cm replaced by Mk11 twin Tartar launchers. a Mk16 ASROC in-place of the catapult just aft of the funnel. Hanger removed and aft superstructure enlarged for radar & Mk33s.

over-all I suggest: 8 Mk42 5"/54 in-place of 105s, 4-8 Mk33 3"/50s in superstructure, 4 Mk10 twin Terrier launchers 2 each fore & aft, 2 Mk11 Tartar launchers midships, & a Mk16 ASROC launcher midships.

[jeffryfontaine]

The great thing about "what if" stuff is that no idea is wrong!

Quite a number of years ago there was a submission to Fine Scale Modeler by one of the readers that was a What-If of the 1:350th scale Tamiya Bismark or Tirpitz fitted out with modern weapons to supplement the main gun armament. It was quite impressive.

[GMG4RWF]

The great thing about "what if" stuff is that no idea is wrong!

Quite a number of years ago there was a submission to Fine Scale Modeler by one of the readers that was a What-If of the 1:350th scale Tamiya Bismark or Tirpitz fitted out with modern weapons to supplement the main gun armament. It was quite impressive.

Do you know any details of the refit?

[GMG4RWF]

Only other modern ships they got were some DDs that I know of...

Seasick... I didn't know the Soviets got any Kriegsmarine ships after the war...

No, actually they were given the CV Graf Zeppelin but she disappeared for 60 yrs - They claimed they scrapped her, but turns out they bungled & lost her in the Eastern Baltic, new sonar footage located her off St. Petersburg. One thing to remember in negotiations is: Big ship = Big concession which = lots of little concessions elsewhere for you. We didn't need yet another enemy Battleship (or 2nd rate - by our '45 standards - Carrier) give them to Russia in exchange for something else we do want ( like Austria ).

[jeffryfontaine]

Do you know any details of the refit?

All of my Fine Scale Modeler issues are stored at the moment in a storage locker quite some distance from where I live. I have tried on several occasions to locate the original article at the Fine Scale Modeler web site but to no avail. I was hoping it would have been available to view in the archives but so far I have not found anything resembling archives at FSM on-line.