Calling all IJN Carrier fans (class comparisons)

[sirpaul]

I would think you may want to start with a Mogami class hull. They were a lot fuller formed and a bit higher than the Myoko class.

[Dick J]

AJ,

I have a few photos of the incomplete ship which indicate that the deck would have lacked the wood covering. The Mogami hull had a slimmer bow form than your Haguro hull, and the sides lack the recesses caused by the way the Ibuki was blistered (as a cruiser - before the additional CV bulges were added over them). There are some good drawings in the IJN carrier mechanisms book. Perhaps we can get together (when I get my sources reorganized - my hobby room flooded and is in the process of getting a complete makeover). If I recall, you are also in the SLC area. Drop me a line.

Dick J

[potchip]

They are based off the Suzuya/Kumano hull - being slightly different to the Mogami/Mikuma hulls.

[Admiral John Byng]

I doubt the flight deck would be armoured, the weight of any useful amount of armour would be too much for such a small carrier.

[Mike W]

Actually it is now believed (last time I checked) that Taiho's deck had some sort of covering on it, possibly wood.

thanks
Mike

[Dick J]

Ibuki's flightdeck was not armored, but it also was not wood covered. Apparently, the Unryu class also lacked the wood covering, but were not armored on the flightfdeck. Photos of the incomplete Ibuki show the steel deck, and there is a total lack of the indentation needed to flush a wood section with the steel-only portions of the deck. Even IJN CV's with wood decks had the wood over a layer of steel.

[Dan K]

Wow, cool, everyone's really been paying attention over the years.

Suzuya/Kumano hull (when the class was planned as a CA, there was neither time nor design staff resources to adapt the newer Tone class hull form - which I think would have made an ideal hull as it is a little fuller in shape, would probably have required less bulging as a CVL - so, a reversion to the previous class design was accepted.)

Flight deck - no plan ever to armor it. As Dick has indicated, wood planking over steel plating was the standard design. A lack of wood meant covering the FD with a latex like coating over metal plating.

Taiho FD - well, not everybody is convinced about her having wood planking over the armor/metal plate, but I am. See the CASF Taiho thread.

There is an Ibuki plan in the L& W volume, and perhaps in Gakken #22, which may have been drawn by the US NavTech mission to Japan right after the war. I'll have to scan it at some point.

[Dan K]

Some more info, from LaCroix & Welles -

[ajkochev]

So I'm gathering the general consensus is there would be wood planking on the Flight deck? This isn't to hard to get the basic look with Evergreen n-scale boxcar siding in 1/700. I think I'd want to do the horizontal pattern as well which I'd need to carve in the styrene. Has anyone used some of the 1/700 full wood sheets that are not precut for a ship. I've seen them but I'd like a photo of a close up of the planking if someone has them in there stash.

[Dick J]

Don't take colorized photos as an indication of material. None of the Unryu's appear to have had wood on the deck. If you really look at the Ibuki deck photos, you can see lines for the metal plates, but no wood. There is no recess in the steel deck for a wood section (the wood area would have needed to be flush with the steel portions of the deck), and no raised metal edging to indicate the entire deck would have been covered. I believe that there would have been no wood at all. (To speed up wartime construction, to not use up limited resources, and for topweight considerations.)

[Dan K]

(note to moderator: I agree, this thread should eventually be moved to the CASF Carrier section).

I'm with Dick; while the Unryus were likely DESIGNED to carry wood on their flight decks, none of the very late war carriers ever actually carried wood planking.Wood was in very short supply. Te metal plating was covered with a latex material. I included a colorized shot because I thought it did a better job of distinguishing details.

While I do not have any close-ups photos of Ibuki's flight deck, those of Katsuragi below are indicative of the latex covered surfaces.

[ajkochev]

Having a smooth deck would help me convince myself to do this project. Now more speculation? How would the deck have looked finished and in operation? Similar to linoleum brown with the latex coating? Camo scheme similar to Unryu or late Zuiho? I'm thinking a green, black, brown camo scheme of some kind to match the green sides in the photos posted.

I think I may open a contest in another thread so as not to taint the academic value this one has been if it does get moved to the CASF section.

[AllianceModelWorks]

amagi

[Dick J]

Now more speculation? How would the deck have looked finished and in operation? Similar to linoleum brown with the latex coating? Camo scheme similar to Unryu or late Zuiho? I'm thinking a green, black, brown camo scheme of some kind to match the green sides in the photos posted.

Linoleum brown is highly unlikely. You could look at this from either of two perspectives. First, the reality of 1945, slightly warped to allow Ibuki's completion. In that case, the ship would have had the two-tone green side camo with a patterned deck. The second scenario is that things were not so bad that ship building was suspended, but bad enough for the emergency conversion of Ibuki to a CV. In that case, the deck would have more probably been colored as the deck on Taiyo or her sisters upon completion. I think Dan K would have a better handle on what that color would have been.

[potchip]

Latex coating would be blackish grey as in Taiho's case. The primary purpose would be cushioning (less stress on aircraft under carriage when landing) and temperature/noise insulation (imagine a metal roof for your house, during rain) and not to mention some anti-slip properties.

Different material to linoleum anyway - and by that stage IJN has drastically reduced linoleum usage due to its flammable properties - in fact many destroyers have them stripped.

[Dan K]

I agree that use of linoleum would be unlikely; too many issues in covering such a large expanse with tiedowns, and & resistance to heavy duty wear would be unacceptable. Otherwise, the IJN would have probably adapted it in earlier CV iterations.

It's anyone's guess which camo pattern would have been used, so artistic license is quite acceptable.

Taiho's wood planking was covered with a special black paint at some point at Tawi Tawi prior to sortie for the Phillipine Sea. IIRC, it was not a pure latex covering. And, just fyi, the original actor who played Godzilla ( Haruo Nakajima I think), was a crewman aboard Shinano. He reported the flight deck was pinkish in color but another surviving crewman (interviewed by Seitaro Ohki for a build of a Shinano model) reported a gray deck. FWIW.

[Dick J]

The primary purpose would be cushioning (less stress on aircraft under carriage when landing) and temperature/noise insulation (imagine a metal roof for your house, during rain) and not to mention some anti-slip properties.

A latex coating would produce only a small fraction of a 1% decrease in landing stress. That would not have been a consideration in this case. The US used wood for its non-skid qualities and for the temperature/noise considerations that you indicated. A latex coating would have been primarily for non-skid purposes.

Different material to linoleum anyway - and by that stage IJN has drastically reduced linoleum usage due to its flammable properties - in fact many destroyers have them stripped.

Only the interior linoleum was being removed. The exterior-deck brown linoleum remained in place.

[Jonathan]

Hi all, does anyone know if Taiyo, Unyo, Chuyo ever carried the verticle two tone green and deck disguise camo markings? Also, I'm assuming their early entry into service means their flight decks would have been wood covered?

[Dan K]

Yes to wood decks. Chuyo sunk too early to carry any camo. The other two rate a maybe. No firm records that I can recall on that point, but I'll look.

[Dan K]

As the caption reads .......