Calling all Skipjack-class (SSN-585) fans!

[Guest]

Dear Cliff and Jim,

Thanks for the links gentleman!! Much appreciated. For some reason (age probably) I forgot all about NAVSOURCE (duh!)

I had seen the photo of Scorpion coming alongside USS Tallahatchie County before; that's why I questioned the color references in the Moebius instructions. I'm going to go with some sort of sea grey shade for the sail and I'll add the paint touchups shown on her starboard side as well.

The model is huge and it is the first time I have ever used a power sander to finish seams. I'll post some photos when she's complete.

[Cliffy B]

I'm pretty sure its "Ocean Gray" after looking at that color shot. Its far darker then the standard Haze Gray.

If you look here it says the only colors for subs were Black, Haze, and Ocean Gray.
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pdf/camo1953.pdf

I know its dated 1953 but it seems to follow the way subs were painted fairly well from post war up until all black was adopted best I can tell.

[SSNJim]

Here's a shot showing another Skipjack (Shark) with the running lights rigged out.

http://navsource.org/archives/08/591/0859126.jpg

[Tom Dougherty]

I was also very intrigued by the comments on the acoustic signature analysis by Mr. Rule although if I am interpreting the analysis correctly, his views seem to diametrically oppose Dr. Craven's interpretation of the events. Obviously, there is more to the science of acoustic interpretation than I realized.

Craven's torpedo theory was dismissed by the original COI Board. The wreckage is inconsistent with a torpedo explosion. The bow itself is largely in one piece, and the Skipjacks had bow torpedo tubes. An explosion in the bow of a Mk 37 would have caused severe bow damage. In addition, the telescoping of the stern section forward into the machinery spaces is indicative of a hull failure (due to external sea pressure) at that point. The water ram would have entered at supersonic velocity, blown the bow off and shattered the operations compartment. This is consistent with the state of wreckage on the ocean floor.

The summation that Scorpion's hull implosion at 1500 feet and change surprised me as well. It was my understanding that Scorpion was operationally limited to depths no greater than 300 feet due to possible weaknesses in the hull and that she was scheduled for a yard period on return home to address these structural issues, or is that simply hearsay? Did the supposedly weak hull really withstand over 40 atmospheres of pressure before failure?

Test depth on the Skipjack class was 700 feet. The hull was HY-80, but the fittings and other items limited the depth. The Thresher/Permits had HY-80 hulls, but had 1300 foot test depths, because the hull, framing and other items were able to withstand those depths. In fact, Thresher's hull failed at around 2400 ft. when she was lost in 1963.

The 300 feet limitation on Scorpion was due to lack of SubSafe modifications, still to be made. The collapse depth has been determined from the acoustic records to have been about at 1530 feet.

Mr. Rule does not address the issue of the large "bite" out of the rear of the sail either. Is this perhaps where some of these TLX-53A batteries located? If not, do you suspect this "bite" was due to the collapse of the sail on impact with the seafloor or the implosion of the pressure hull?

The batteries are located at the lowest level of the hull, below the crew quarters (see below diagram). The state of the wreck on the ocean floor is due to multiple factors, most notably the "telescoping" of the stern into the auxiliary machinery space, which was the initial hull failure point. The operations compartment was shattered, and in the process the sail came off. The "bite " could have happened then or when the sail came to rest on the ocean floor.

I admit to being more than chilled to think that it is possible that some of the crew could have suffered for 20 odd minutes as the boat slowly sank. I pray this was not the case.

The SOSUS recordings indicated the size of the initial explosion, interpreted as a TLX-53A battery explosion. This created an overpressure of roughly 150-200 PSI, not sufficient to rupture the pressure hull, but well over the 50 PSI overpressure necessary to kill humans. There would have been insufficient time for human perception; the crew was instantaneously rendered unconscious and death from compression shock occurred rapidly. With no crew alive, the submarine slowly sank to a depth where the hull failure occurred.

[Bombay Daily]

Superb information gentlemen. Thank you all, very much!

[Heavy Melder]

Any one know how good or bad the new Micro-Mir 1/350 Skipjack is?

[D-Boy]

Any one know how good or bad the new Micro-Mir 1/350 Skipjack is?

Have not yet seen a review for the Skipjack, but their kits of the Sturgeon and Permit/Thresher Class kits have earned favorable reviews/write-ups here at MWS.com

[krgf15]

I hope it is as good as the Sturgeon and Thresher, Im ordering one next week.

[orangelion03]

I hope it is as good as the Sturgeon and Thresher, Im ordering one next week.

I am interested in these kits as well. Are you ordering direct from Russia or another source?

Robert Arance
Santa Paula, California

[D-Boy]

I hope it is as good as the Sturgeon and Thresher, Im ordering one next week.

I am interested in these kits as well. Are you ordering direct from Russia or another source?

Robert Arance
Santa Paula, California

Freetime, supporters of this board, have it in stock: http://www.freetimehobbies.com/1-350-mi ... submarine/

[orangelion03]

Freetime, supporters of this board, have it in stock: http://www.freetimehobbies.com/1-350-mi ... submarine/

Thank you!!!

[orangelion03]

Thanks to D-Boy pointing me in the direction of Freetime Hobbies, I ordered the Mikro-Mir kit from them. Delivery was fast...three days to the wast coast. I had seen a couple of photos of the box contents on other sites so I was prepared for a limited run type plastic kit. There is a contrast between some really well rendered scribed details, and rough textured surfaces (see image of stern below). Unfortunately, some of those fine scribed details include the torp tubes and they get erased when you clean up the hull joint. Some of the parts are a little clunky, but the overall model looks the part. Hull is split horizontally into upper and lower halves with the horizontal planes attached to each half. Fit here is a little rough as there are no locating pins or stepped joint as in HobbyBoss kits. Lower half on mine was a little wider that the upper and some of the edges need sharpening. Lower half had significant sink marks close to the sprue gates, but they are easily dealt with. I carefully glued the halves together using Tamiya Thin Liquid Cement, an inch or so at a time starting at the stern...worked up to about 2/3rd of the hull, then let it dry with clamps to hold them tight. The next day, I repeated the process on the opposite side and setting it aside to dry overnight. The final step was to bring the gap at the bow together and apply cement and clamps. After all was dry, I removed the clamps and used a large Sharpie marker to draw along the seam line. This allows me to see low spots and gaps after wet sanding which I performed with sanding sticks and sheets of various grits. I then applied Mr Surfacer 500 to the low spots. While letting the hull parts dry, I worked on the sail. Again with fine detail on the surfaces but a rough fit of the three main components, but nothing that couldnt be cured with some careful filling and sanding. The fit of the sail to the hull is not very good (only a scribed line for location) and will need careful filling to blend it in. Vertical fins and sail planes are single piece parts that attach to their mating surfaces with a but joint; no alignment pins so care must be taken to attach them securely. Not shown is the prop...this is made from a two-part hub which sandwiched a PE prop you then bend to set the pitch. I also made a display stand for it as the one that comes in the kit is rather hokey. The stand is a piece of aluminum with brass rod for pins, plastic tubing for the stand offs, and the whole thing painted semi-gloss black.

The photos below show the current state of the kit. The stern of the sub looks a bit thick to me, but looking at drawings it seems to match. Next steps will be sanding down the filler and applying a final primer coat, wet sanding that in preparation for color coats (see next post).

So, all in all, it's a nice enough model, maybe a little pricey at $27 shipped, but you could pay a LOT more for an OOP resin kit (if you can find it). Even if some unscrupulous type were to use this as a pattern to cast resin models, the cost of mold materials and resin would probably be higher that $27.

[orangelion03]

I would like to finish the kit as Scorpion. I have seen the photos that show the upper hull in black with sail in gray and black, but what is the color of the lower hull? Was it also black? Or if it was red, where was the demarcation?


Thanks!!!!

[D-Boy]

I would like to finish the kit as Scorpion. I have seen the photos that show the upper hull in black with sail in gray and black, but what is the color of the lower hull? Was it also black? Or if it was red, where was the demarcation?

If you search "uss skipjack ssn-585 photos" for the Skipjack, they appear to indicate all black, sail top to hull bottom. Check out her launch photos, for instance.

However, it seems many models (which also come up in such a search) show gray - black, black - red, and at least one model painted gray - black - red.

I understand the urge to bring some color to the model. But it is likely not accurate. Which makes weathering and under-sea effects all the more important (you'll see some nice examples).

[orangelion03]

Thanks for your response D-Boy!

I should have been more specific...I would like to paint my model as Scorpion on her last patrol. The images below show her in Naples, just before departing on her fateful trip. Sail is clearly gray, with the top surface and dive planes in, most likely, black. The upper part of the hull appears to be black, but there are some indications there may be another color as well. At the time of her first overhaul in 64 (dry dock pic below), she sported a red lower half, but no idea if she carried this beyond her second (partial) overhaul in 67. Skipjack class boats seem to have had several different schemes through out their careers...hard to say what and when.

[SSNJim]

Orangelion03, check out the posts at the bottom of page 3 and the top of this page for some painting info if you haven't already.

[orangelion03]

Orangelion03, check out the posts at the bottom of page 3 and the top of this page for some painting info if you haven't already.

I had Jim, and had deduced the approximate colors of her above-water features from the navsource pics. But I still have no definitive answer as to her colors UNDER the water line. All black or black and red? If red, where is the demarcation: waterline or mid-hull?

[SSNJim]

The black paint would go to at least mid-hull - no red or gray would be visible if you were looking at the boat from the top. I don't know for certain that Scorpion had any red paint, but if they did, it would have been similar to the 64 picture. Red paint to the waterline appears to be a builder's paint scheme only.

[orangelion03]

The black paint would go to at least mid-hull - no red or gray would be visible if you were looking at the boat from the top. I don't know for certain that Scorpion had any red paint, but if they did, it would have been similar to the 64 picture. Red paint to the waterline appears to be a builder's paint scheme only.

Thanks Jim!

[merriman]

The April Fine Scale Modeler rag has an ad for the USS Skipjack on Pg 8.
Skill level 3, availiable June 2012 at a SRP of $119.99.
I'll be getting at least one.
Thank you for all involved in this and Moebius Models!

You're welcome.

Working on Moebius to consider a line of 1/144 scale cold-war era sub kits. You ping on 'em too ... can only help.

David Douglass Merriman lll