Calling All IJN Kongo-Class Fans

[Bill Clarke]

Is that the original tooling with new decals?

looks like it to me Dan

[Dan K]

Bill, I would agree that what is shown is new. What is not shown is the hull. Same approach taken with the otherwise beautiful Kirishima tooling.

[Angeliccypher]

I recently acquired the Aoshima 1/350 '44 Kongo. I wanted to find out what date range the kit is supposed to be representing. The issue I found was according to the TROM on Combined Fleet she had three different refits in '44 involving AA guns. As far as I can tell the kit has too many 25mm for the January fit, not enough for the second fit, and nowhere near enough for her last fit for Layte. Can someone please add some clarity to this for me?

Thanks,

[J. Soca]

I recently acquired the Aoshima 1/350 '44 Kongo. I wanted to find out what date range the kit is supposed to be representing. The issue I found was according to the TROM on Combined Fleet she had three different refits in '44 involving AA guns. As far as I can tell the kit has too many 25mm for the January fit, not enough for the second fit, and nowhere near enough for her last fit for Layte. Can someone please add some clarity to this for me?

Thanks,

I'll try the best I can to answer your question although I'm not so sure, this might end up being one of those give or take dates because of what I read on my A.J Watts and B. G Gordon book "The Imperial Japanese Navy" is not quite the same of what I read on Combinedfleet but pretty darn close in some things!

On the book, after her 1937 reconstruction and to the start of the war Kongo carried twenty 25mm twin MGs. On 20th June 1944 she was refitted with an extra fourteen 25 mm MGs I can only think these were singles because there is no mention of doubles or triples yet. Total came up to 34 Mgs. By July 1944 ( there is no specific date on this one) total MGs rose up to 94 ( 30x3, 2x2) and 62x1 number I came up with because is not written there either. Last refit says October 1944 with no specific date either, 6x1 were added and these brought the total to 100 MGs. Combinedfleet website has another total number of MGs which is 118. hope this helps on something


Jose

[Angeliccypher]

Thanks Jose. I think you are correct in that it leaves more questios than it anwers. Would it help if I posted the amount of AA guns, types and rough locations?

[Angeliccypher]

The data in the kit instructions says:
18 triple, 8 double and 30 single 25mm mounts.

[J. Soca]

The data in the kit instructions says:
18 triple, 8 double and 30 single 25mm mounts.

Hi Gabriel

56 is a number I haven't read anywhere, I looked at my Warship Pictorial# 13 the TROM found on the book is a much shorter version of what is found on Combinedfleet and Steve Wiper wrote 100 machine guns as final complement. He omitted those other 18 mounts which were added back at Seletar naval base on 23 of August according to CF. Now, my Kongo class Battlecruisers magazine which was written also by Steve Wiper contradicts this number. On page 14 the Kongo CLASS wartime improvements (made that in bold because it includes all 4 sisters) states from 10 to 72 -25 mm AA were added. From what I've read in the past few days i can tell you this, Kongo's AA complement was more than 56! I know it keeps getting frustrating because now we are not only talking about numbers but also positioning and i can't help you on this one my sources are extremely vague when it comes to 1944 drawings or schematics and the few i got i can't even make out single mounts.. Maybe Atma or Dan can give us their input in all these


Jose

[Angeliccypher]

Thanks again Jose. From what I gather, the numbers I gave you above are actua mound not barels. I will look at the kit again here in a few to see how many I can count.

[Angeliccypher]

I just went through the instructions again. Here are the 25mm counts both on the it and in the instructions. I can look at other aspects if you need more data to help me determine the date. I will also take photos if you like.

24 in triple mounts (3x8)
12 in double mounts (2x6)
28 single mounts. The kit comes with 30 and the data in the instructions states she had 30 but does not show where the other two go.

64 (or 66 if you include the two random single mounts that apparently have no home).

She also has 12 12.7 guns (2x6). 8 of the casemates plus her main batteries.

Thanks,

[Guest]

I just went through the instructions again. Here are the 25mm counts both on the it and in the instructions. I can look at other aspects if you need more data to help me determine the date. I will also take photos if you like.

24 in triple mounts (3x8)
12 in double mounts (2x6)
28 single mounts. The kit comes with 30 and the data in the instructions states she had 30 but does not show where the other two go.

64 (or 66 if you include the two random single mounts that apparently have no home).

She also has 12 12.7 guns (2x6). 8 of the casemates plus her main batteries.

Thanks,

I was crunching some numbers in my head but ran out of time I'll get back to u tonite when I get off work. When I first commented I messed big I confused # of barrels with mounts i'm sorry about that. Still the little I could do before I left for work told # of barrels and mounts exceed the kit's.

Jose

[J. Soca]

Gabriel I think I should've started by asking you when in 1944? Are you modeling Kongo at the battle of Leyte? or before she was sunk?? I'll be honest with you out of all the sources i've been over i would choose the CombinedFleet website as primary source and stick to it. I've been visiting that website for years and i think is a very reputable source.

so by saying this lets recap some things, According to the website:

23 April 1942
20 - 25mm (10x2) Initial complement AA and this checks with my AJ Watts book!!



27 February to 13 March 1943
6 - 25mm (2x3)



30 January 1944 first refit of the year
12-25mm (4x3)
then 4 - 25mm (2x2) were removed so this brought twin AA complement to (8x2) 16 barrels



30 June 1944 midyear refit
36 - 25mm (12x3)
40 - 25mm (40x1)


23 August 1944

I'm quoting this from the webpage "KONGO departs Lingga for Seletar, Naval Base, Singapore where electrical work is accomplished. Eighteen more 25 mm. AA are probably also added at this time to bring their final total to 118"



Totals without those 18 that were probably added

single (40x1) ------- 40
doubles (8x2) ----- 16
triples (18x3)------ 54
total --------------- 110

and i'm sorry to say that is not balancing to 100 like the website says and like the book says, however the website is way more concrete. Man this sure put my brain to work today


Jose

[Angeliccypher]

That does help a lot. What I think I am going to do is figure out where those guns were located in the refits. Any way I look at it the kit is wrong on this. So I may as well decide on a fit and correct it from there. Thanks for your help a ton!

[krgf15]

Hello guys,

My question is in regards to Hasegawas Kongo Main battery turrets. I have noticed they are smaller that the turrets in the Aoshima and Hasegawa Fusos and Ises. Were they actually that much smaller in real life? I was under the impression that they were the same in all of the IJN 14inch battleships. This is just for gee whiz info and curiosity.

[Atma]

First of all Hasegawa never released a IJN Fuso class battleship. But the IJN Ise and IJN Kongo class had approximately the same size 14 cm main turrets but different "shapes". Different housing.
IJN Kongo also had 2 different variants. IJN Kongo and IJN Hiei had rectangular shape turrets while IJN Haruna and IJN Kirishima had round shaped main turrets.

[krgf15]

Yeah I should have said aoshima fuso and hasegawa ise instead of how I typed it. But I knew that because I have them lol

[Atma]

Fujimi's 1/700 IJN Kirishima will be released as a full hull edition this December.

[Dan K]

Yeah, are they goona continue with the crooked casemates and covered scuttles from the late war Kongo hull? Carrying over the late war hull to the '41 Kongo was lame, just like for the Kirishima kit. Mars an otherwise beautiful kit.

[Atma]

Im sure the IJN Kirishima when she was sunk had covered scuttles.

[Dan K]

From a thread on this topic on j-ships, by Sander Kingsepp, noted IJN researcher and translator:


Dan K: "The porthole question came up because Fujimi's new Kirishima kit utilizes their 1944 Kongo hull with sealed scuttles. Fujimi claimed there was a passage in one of the Gakken books that implied that such work had taken place, occurring at some point in late 1942. Mucho and I went over this last year offline.

However, I believe it to be BS, and just an excuse to go cheap and make better use of their current tooling. After all, no such claim is made for divion mate Hiei, who's TROM is almost identical to Kirishima's for the period in question."

In fact, this is the most plausible explanation. FWIW, there is no such change mentioned in Gakken Pictorial Vol. 21 or (more importantly) in the War Diary of the associated division. Sealing the scuttles would have necessitated a visit to the drydock and such option was clearly not available at Truk at that time.

Best,

Sander

[TI4438]

I'm currently building the 1/350 Aoshima Kongo.The kit comes with PE water tight doors,but the instructions don't say where to place them.Am I supposed to sand down the molded doors,or are the PE doors placed somewhere else?