Berkeley NanoFil fishing line: competitor to Uni-Caenis?

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Eric Bergerud
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Berkeley NanoFil fishing line: competitor to Uni-Caenis?

Post by Eric Bergerud »

I just got a spool of one of the newer "super lines" that are once again popular among fishermen. A "super line" is some kind of fused filament line that gives extremely high strength per diameter. In theory, lower diameter should allow better casting qualities in some situations: it should go farther because it's lighter and has less drag, it has very low "memory" which should help spinning reel tangles and it should have extremely low stretch increasing hooking setting. (I used to use braided filament on striped bass and can testify that the last quality is quite true. Of course stripers clobber lures so if it stays on for two seconds it will probably be coming in if the line holds.) Critics of the lines complain about poor abrasion resistance and claim backlash actually increases. (It doesn't.) And it costs a lot more. But if you're going to spend a few grand to fish trout on the Yellowstone, what's an extra $20?

We're interested here in rigging. Those happy with stretched sprue will probably remain so. If you employ either light fishing line or even thinner fly tying line (especially Uni-Caenis 20 Denier) this stuff may be worth a look. The item in question is Berkeley Nanofil uni-filament fishing line that has 1 lb breaking strength and an average diameter of .001" or .025mm. Someone on our site estimated Uni-Caenis thread at .05mm but I think that's considerably too thick. I've spent some time on fly fishing sites and it appears that giving a diameter of extremely thin lines is something of an estimate: "denier" is actually a function of length/and weight and would show itself in how much would be required to tie around a home made fly shaft: more turns, thinner the line. Break strength is also an estimate. Uni-Caenis is rated by Uni-Productions at 4 ounces break strength - but that's unimportant for fly tying. Thin there would be good for securing very delicate materials.

I have Nanofil, Uni-Caenis and Berkeley Fireline MicroIce Crystal (1 lb break strength at 4 ounces normal break strength: .06mm diameter.) If the estimate of a .05mm diameter was correct for Uni Caenis the Fireline MicroIce I used on my recent 1/700 Tamiya Scharnhorst should have been very close in diameter. In the pic below, you can see some strands of Uni Caenis strung vertically over some Fireline. The Caenis is obviously thinner, but the Fireline was the thinnest fishing line I had seen until that point. Here's a pic that should show what I mean (should note that this is about as close as my camera will allow me to take a picture so if both lines look hefty, you're getting an ant's eye view):
Image

The NanoFil arrived today. A photo would be pointless so you'll just have to trust me. In terms of diameter NanoFil appears, as advertised, about half the diameter of Fireline MicroIce. (The MicroIce is thicker, but the example in the photo was run under a sharpie and the ink actually adds to apparent thickness I think.) I would estimate that the Uni Caenis remains the thinnest of the lot, but not by much. How one determines proper scale on items like this, I haven't the foggiest other than guess work. All I know is that from 10 feet away Uni Caenis is essentially invisible and that photos of Scharnhorst taken from considerable distance showed some obvious rigging.

Uni Caenis does have advantages. If thin you want it's the thinnest, but only by a hair. (No pun intended.) It costs $2 for a lifetime supply. And, being thread, it snips off with the slightest contact by something sharp. It comes in black and white, so you can chose the poison - I don't know if real lines and cables are dark or light - models in our gallery show both.

NanoFil is $19 per 150 yard spool, no doubt a life time's supply. (If MicroIce would work well at 1/350 or smaller scale, it is available in 50 yard filler spools for about $6.) The material is remarkably strong - not even the bravest fisherman is going to want to actually fish with a 4oz test line - so it might be a little trickier to trim, although I found a new #11 Xacto blade cut MicroIce very easily. I haven't rigged a ship with NanoFil, but I've done some knots etc. There's no question it is much easier to work with than Uni Caenis. The problem with threads is that they have zero memory. Pick a piece up and it wiggles where it wants - I don't even find dipping the tip into CA much help. Fishing line has to have some memory - if a maker says it has none, he means it has less. You have to be able to tie a knot with fishing line and if it won't hold straight for a moment, that can be a real challenge - especially at night when you have to re-rig in the middle of a school of striped bass. Anyway, if you have 4X glasses NanoFil will go where you aim it. I find Uni always difficult but possible to deal with in very easy situations, but a real trial if it must be threaded through a fine point. That will be a far lesser problem with NanoFil - although you will still want glasses, because however it compares to Uni, it is far thinner than standard 2lb mono.

Anyway, the stuff is really thin and it will be pretty civilized to work with. And being a filament line, it tightens under heat just as sprue does. (I don't know about Uni 20, but Uni 6/0 line - still very thin stuff - will also tighten perhaps because it's "waxed" with some kind of polymer.

NanoFil or Crystal MicroIce are both available at competitive prices at the Berkeley web site http://www.berkley-fishing.com/ . You can also find either on Amazon or at Cabella's. NanoFil comes in clear, smoke and moss green color.

If anyone would like to check out a few inches, send me a private message and I'll send some out.

Eric
A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and will not sink with you in it.
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Pagodaphile
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Re: Berkeley NanoFil fishing line: competitor to Uni-Caenis?

Post by Pagodaphile »

How does it compare to the Caenis line when it's time to bring out the glue ?
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wefalck
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Re: Berkeley NanoFil fishing line: competitor to Uni-Caenis?

Post by wefalck »

6/0 size threads are actually quite thick (so the actual 'diameter' seems to vary between manufacturers, which could be due to the different materials used for making the threads). The thinnest fly-tying thread I have come across is 16/0 by Veevus from Denmark (http://veevus.dk/6-thread). It comes in various colours, including cream, which makes it useful not only for wire-rigging, but also other kinds of ropes.

Manufacturers, for good reasons, do not give 'diameters' of threads, but rather say how many meters of thread you get out of one gram of yarn. A way to determine approximate diameters is to wind say 10 or 20 turns not too loose and not too tight around a dowel or similar and then measure the width of the windings with a venier caliper, without applying too much pressure. Divided by the number of turns, the measured figure gives you the approximate diameter.

wefalck
Eberhard

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Eric Bergerud
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Re: Berkeley NanoFil fishing line: competitor to Uni-Caenis?

Post by Eric Bergerud »

I got this off of a major fly tying forum http://forums.flytyer.com/forum/33-begi ... nier-sizes

Brand & �0� Size Denier Material Diameter (mm)
Danville 3/0 116 Nylon 0.12
Danville 6/0 70 Nylon 0.09
Danville flat waxed nylon 210 Nylon 0.16
Danville Flymaster Plus 140 140 Nylon 0.13
Danville Flymaster Plus 210 210 Nylon 0.16
Uni 3/0 266 Polyester 0.17
Uni 7/0 100 Polyester 0.12
Uni 6/0 135 Polyester 0.12
Uni 8/0 72 Polyester 0.09
Uni 12/0 50 Polyester 0.09
Uni 17/0 40 Polyester 0.06
Uni nylon 210 210 GSP 0.16
Uni nylon 70 70 GSP .09


So as you can see the chart's author estimates Uni 6/0 at .12mm diameter: 17/0 at .06. I've got Uni 6.0 and Uni 20 denier plus the two lines mentioned and these estimates strike me as correct. (Note the fly forum has 17/0 thread as the same diameter as Berkeley Micro-Ice (.06mm): the 6/0 Uni is to my eye obvious considerably thicker than Uni 20 Den or either Berkeley lines. NanoFil claims .025mm diameter - it's a line, not a thread, and they are measured that way. I think it would be quite hard for most people to determine whether NanoFil or Uni Caenis was the thinner - it's magnifying glass close. Indeed, it's possible that my estimate that Uni 20 Den is the thinnest is because its complete lack of memory makes it feel so. In any case NanoFil is the thinnest fishing line I've ever heard of. But because it's line and not thread it will be considerably easier to work with. I find Uni Caenis extremely hard unless there are very visible targets even when wearing 6X reading glasses. At least a line will probably go in the direction you point it - it's made to be knotted - although Berkeley warns against using most standard fishing knots with NanoFil probably because the knot would cut the line - more testimony to the delicacy of the stuff.

I haven't used NanoFil on a model yet, but would think that a line that light would work with about any glue. Fishing line and CA get along just fine but with .025 diameter you're not fighting gravity much and I'd think anything that was sticky would work.

I'll certainly use it on my next ship and will report in.
Eric
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wefalck
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Re: Berkeley NanoFil fishing line: competitor to Uni-Caenis?

Post by wefalck »

Most fly-tying threads are real threads, composed of two or three strands of very fine fibres. NanoFil and the likes are monofilaments, i.e. essentially plastic wires. Knots in most cases depend on the structure of a rope to lock properly. This is why knots in monofilaments often don't hold unless you can deform the monofilament by pulling the knot tight enough, which damages it and my result in breakage. Knots in monofilaments are also much bulkier than knots in thread of the same 'diameter'.

wefalck
Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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Eric Bergerud
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Re: Berkeley NanoFil fishing line: competitor to Uni-Caenis?

Post by Eric Bergerud »

If you go onto one of the big fly fishing sites - or Berkeley Co for instance - you'll see they make a distinction between monofilament lines and the other braided or fused lines: NanoFil is called a "unifilament" line. But NanoFil is a line - the thinnest I've ever heard of - with the monofilament equivalent of 4 ounces break strength - one pound break strength due to fused nature. Be a brave fisherman that would want less. What you say about knots in line is true and explains why Berkeley cautions fishermen only use a variation on the palomar knot when using that line. The Uni 20 Den is a thread. No doubt there's a difference between a fishing line and a thread. I've used both Uni 20 Den and NanoFil and I certainly find the later much easier to use. The only clear advantage I can see in Uni 20 Den (aside from price) is that it would be easier to trim, but both are so light that I don't think there would be many knots. I have no reason to doubt Berkeley's claim that NanoFil is .025mm in diameter - and if so, it's almost identical with Uni 20 Den. If you want rigging to almost pass the invisible at 5 feet test both will work nicely. I don't doubt others will have a steadier hand and better eye and will find Uni 20 or very fine sprue a better solution. (My problem with sprue is preventing it from melting on brass.) But for me, a very fine line that is also very useable is worth having.

It would be interesting to know what scale we'd want on a 1/700 or 1/350 ship. I haven't any idea how thick are the various lines, cables etc that we emulate on models. I'd guess on a real ship they would vary a lot. As always it helps to know something about the real object being modeled. As for yours truly, I've seen hundreds of ships but have never been on anything larger than a ferry in motion and don't sail. So it's complete abstraction.

Eric
A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and will not sink with you in it.
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