Clear Nail polish for rigging and PE...too good to be true?

[sargentx]

I was at Superstore yesterday and rather than focusing on shopping I was daydreaming about rigging : )
One thing I hate about water based glues such as PVA and acrylic matte medium is that they shrink when they dry and also seem to have a crazy need to behave as tears or drops that have a very powerful meniscus. I've also noticed that these water based glues seem to have some kind of 'charge' to them and will actually deflect my rigging as I'm working with it...like a magnetic repellant force. I'm also a bit queazy about the fact that the PVA is not actually bonding to the plastic and has no real adhesive property when it comes to styrene.
I wondered if clear nail polish ('fast set') kind could work as a glue. I bought some and am so far delighted with the results. For rigging, it goes on very smoothly; like cooking oil, without much meniscus or 'charge' and even in thin applications has enough initial tack to hold your rigging in place. What's neat about it as well is that it dries at a very predictable rate. The stuff I'm using sets in about 60 seconds and is tacky in about 30. You can literally count the seconds until you know it's dry and it's the same each time.

I Just gave it a try on a some railing. I dabbed the edge first then applied the railing as I would with CA. It worked like a dream It has a very clean look and remains malleable for a few minutes for positioning, but holds its place. Really nice.

It could be sexy for assembling catapults as well.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this should you try it.

[Cliffy B]

Sounds like it could be a nice choice. My only concerns would be it's longevity and its paintability with different types of paint and clear coats.

[sargentx]

Well, totally valid concerns. We know from the historical record that enamels can last 100's of years. Few people know this, but there is actually no long term consensus on the longevity of CA glue! It is quite possible that all our ships will fall apart in 50 years. I honestly couldn't tell you which would be better. My friend is an art conservator at the University of Calgary and he won't touch CA glue for archival reasons, but is okay with acid free PVA type glues.
What I really like about the enamel nail polish thus far is how easily it works at small scale. It just flows on like oil and doesn't want to cling stubbornly to things and self levels. Try it on some railings...it's laugh out loud better than CA or PVA. My only concern with it is its volatility; which if spilled or put on poorly could mar a paint surface. I don't know, I'm going to use it on my next build as an experiment and see how it goes. I'll ask my conservator friend about its chemical properties as well. Even just for rigging and railings alone, it's pretty fantastic.

In terms of painting, well, modellers are violating 'good practice' with their paints all the time. Simply painting styrene is getting off on the wrong foot! We put water based matte coats over top of oil-washed surfaces, we do touch ups with acrylics onto oil-contaminated surfaces, we glue to paint, etc. etc. Let's face it....models are pretty flaky....BUT only have to survive sitting in a glass box in a shaded room with no physical disturbance. Non-bonded paint layers are okay as long as they're not subjected to mechanical forces and are applied thinly.
All in all, the nail polish only really exists in a small amount under the railing and in small patches where rigging attaches. It's not like its a true 'surface' that you're painting on top of or something.
I"ll talk to my buddy. He ACTUALLY know what he's talking about ; )

[wefalck]

Well, I have been using nitrocellulose varnish for years for that purpose and nail varnish is nothing else but this. As Wikipedia has it: "Nail polish today is a refined version of the paint on vehicles. Most nail polishes are made of nitrocellulose dissolved in a solvent (e.g. butyl acetate or ethyl acetate)". It has been used since the middle of the 19th century or so to varnish brass and silver in order to prevent its tarnishing and you can see the coats still on old instruments.

Contrary to when using CA or PVA, a drop of solvent allows you to correct whatever you did.

Painting over such varnish is not an issue at all. It takes water-based acrylics as well as enamels, but be cautious, the solvent in the latter may dissolve the varnish.

wefalck

[Timmy C]

My friend is an art conservator at the University of Calgary and he won't touch CA glue for archival reasons, but is okay with acid free PVA type glues.

Hey, that's where I study! How about that.

[sargentx]

Well there you go...nitrocellulose paint. Hm. Was doing some more testing today. It's definitely superior to anything I've used for rigging. As for railings, it works fantastic, but the bond isn't as secure as CA glue. It's easier to pull the railing off after it's set. I'm sold for rigging though. wow. And after a few hours, the polish cures a bit more and really grips.

[wefalck]

You may want to have a look at this article on the Web-site of the Nautical Research Guild re. materials to be avoided: http://www.thenrg.org/here-today-maybe- ... wegner.php

wefalck

[marijn van gils]

Thanks, that was an interesting read!

[blacman]

That was very inspiring...
I did the test by myself and it's working well enought!
Thank you

What methods you use for fixing the PE deck? I did one test: I mixed clasic Mr Hobby glue for plastic with Gator glue. Mixture didn't look bad.... I applied it for small leaf of brass and glued to plastic. I did the same with epoxy glue and also with PVA glue standalone.
In my personal opinion the highest resistance for pullout was in MrHobby&Gator glues mixture. You can tear it off of course and it's not so strong as CA glue gives. But having in ming all withdraws of CA glue it could be the option. Does anyone have similar expirience.
Or maybe there is simpler way to set the PE deck on model in reliable way.
Greetings
Greg

[wefalck]

To be honest, I don't know, why want to mix different glues. They would be based on different chemical reactions and there may interfer with each other.

There are two options for laminating something, e.g. a PU resin part, with a metal sheet:

- if you can press it, use contact cement (e.g. Pattex from Henkel, or whatever is available in your country)

- otherwise, use 2-component epoxy cement (but sparingly, as it will squeeze out).

Sanding the metal sheet will improve the keying-in of the cement. One should also degrease the surfaces using acetone.

wefalck

[sargentx]

Whenever I use a wooden deck sheet I first peel off the backing and 'kill' the sticky with Krylon Matte medium. I then use heavy gel artist's medium and a brush to glue it down. I spread some gel on the deck, then the sheet and position it. Acrylic will last a 1000 years and there's no lifting or warping of any kind in my experience. The heavy gel is so dense and low in relative water content that it doesn't overly soak the wood and things won't warp as readily.
I absolutely WOULD NOT trust the ready-made tacky adhesive on the wooden deck sheeting. Kill it first with something, then use your own adhesive to attach it IMHO Also....this gives you some open time to position the sheet and nudge it around as apposed to the frighteningly instant adhesion of the super tacky contact glue that's on the peel off sheets.

[blacman]

Whenever I use a wooden deck sheet ...

Do you have good expirience with metal deck as well?

[Pagodaphile]

Sargentx.....Which rigging material are you using the nail polish with ? i.e. monofilament, sprue, or ?

[sargentx]

I use sprue, hair from a straight wig, and fishing line when needed. I only use the polish for the hair and sprue.

[marengtech]

Hello sargentx, like your technique for painting the decks and I couldn't agree more on the peel and stick decks they have...I just do not trust them. We put all this effort into making these models only to wake one day to find a corner of deck is starting to peel (well, thats my nightmare). I've been holding off on my Nichimo Yamato build for sometime now bcz of this and your technique for attaching the peel and stick deck has breathed life back into this build.

Thanks for sharing!!

[biggles2]

Hi Sergentx. When using nailpolish as an adhesive, for instance, if you're gluing signal flag halyards, which are spaced very close together (like 1 - 2 mm) on the yardarm, and you're glueing the second or third one, would the solvent in the nailpolish loosen the previous bonds, and undo what you've just done?