Quincy wrote:Now that Barham and soon to be released Warspite are becoming available, would the Warspite kit be a good starting point to convert to a Valiant? Also would the Barham be a good donor for the Malaya?? I have the 1/700 Morskie available for the Malaya.
Warspite 1942 is definitely not good for Valiant - big differences in hull and superstructure. We'd need a WW2 Queen Elizabeth which I would think (hope) is still in the offing since they have the 1/350 - only small differences there.
Barham to Malaya WW2 is possible but still a bit of work since the latter had an aircraft hangar fitted with cranes, and a cross-deck catapult (the catapult was later removed). She had a pole mainmast rather than a tripod. I'm sure there were other differences.
I got my Barham a few days ago - the hull at the waterline is about 1 cm longer than my WEM Warspite's. The 15-inch turrets have the ridges for added gun elevation that were not present in Barham & Malaya, but were for the rebuilt ships - so those need to be removed. Then there are those terrible thickened tips of the 15-inch guns - same as for the WW1 kits.
I wouldn't bother trying to make Queen Elizabeth, Valiant or Malaya out of any other kit. Chances are now that they have done Barham and the soon to be released Warspite, they'll do either Queen Elizabeth or Valiant (or both!). Malaya would be a bonus, especially if they model her in her 6 twin 4" configuration.
I sold my WEM Renown and Warspite to get the Trumpeter version but I built my WEM Barham a few years ago, so can't do the same there! I'm now not sure it's worth getting any resin WW2 battleships the rate that Trumpeter are releasing plastic ones! I also reckon they'll do more of the rebuilt old US battleships to go with their late war fit Colorado.
Mike, I would love to see them release the rest of the class too! That would save the headache of a major scratch build. But with Trumpeter kits, a little bit of scratch building/correcting is necessary!
I started the Trumpy QE 1/350. The hull is assembled, primed & black waterline applied (full hull build).
Now i want to do the 1943 camo.
& i'm lost....
Whats the best way to apply the camo? Masking? Freehand? the Force?? Never attempted a camo on a ship before & I really don't want to screw this one up...
I want to use Vallejo paints, & would appreciate ANY advice as to the colours i need.
Oh, I bought the Shipcraft book: Good read, but missed the Trumpy kits in 1/350, even on the 2013 reprint... >sigh!<
A question regarding model rigging for HMS Barham 1941. Most of the completed models that I have seen have radio antenna wires going forward and down from the upper cross member on the aft mast to the roof of the upper platform on the forward tripod. None of the pictures that I have seen of Barham show these antenna wires, but some of the pictures are not good. Can anyone confirm that these antenna wires were in place on Barham in 1941? Thanks for your help, Rich
Building the Academy Warspite. Question, for 1942 configuration (I like that camou better than then latter type), how many type 282 directors are there at the platform below the main mast? Kit indicated 1 or 2 as options but didn't specify which. The build example had 2, but my WEM instruction for 1942 calls for one. To further confuse things, the Trumpeter warspite called 1 for 1945! (but we know how much we should trust Trumpeter on these...)
Photographs from 1943 clearly show two pompom directors with a 282 radar in tubs just below the bridge deck. My images from the IWM taken earlier (see below, I believe taken in September 1941) show no radars, but the directors are present (the previews are small; I have high-res copies). I think that if you want the early first camo scheme that no 282s is correct: I think that the two 282s were fitted in June 1943.
EJFoeth wrote:Photographs from 1943 clearly show two pompom directors with a 282 radar in tubs just below the bridge deck. My images from the IWM taken earlier (see below, I believe taken in September 1941) show no radars, but the directors are present (the previews are small; I have high-res copies). I think that if you want the early first camo scheme that no 282s is correct: I think that the two 282s were fitted in June 1943.
But these photos are not the Warspite. Note the lack of casemates and the AA guns along the main deck. This is QE or Valiant (Whichever one had the tripod mainmast. Can't remember off the top of my head.)
- Sean F.
Well I've since seen 1944 photos with 2 directors therefore Trumpeter's 1945 version is likely in error.
As for the question it self...any conclusive reference that the refit in Aug 42 changed the director arrangement from eg 1 to 2? (also is this the same refit that saw the camou pattern redone from the geometric rectangular pattern to bands?)
According to Ensign 4/ R&R, Warspite was fitted with 4 pompom directors Mk I, so, two on the bridge (top level between the open bridge and DCT) and two on the aft superstructure just aft of the main mast (Colin Vass model as a source). As far as I know, Pompoms Mk I were not fitted with 282s as these directors are significantly smaller that the directors Mk II-IV. Burt does not mention any 282s for Warspite (only for QE. QE had her aft pair in tubs at the widest area of her aft superstructure but these tubs are not present on Warspite.)
I added an image with an outline; I cannot see the 282, or even a pompom director Mk II or higher. (Note that the 285 is visible on the HACS for scale)
Here we see the air-defence position of HMS Warspite with the director just outside the frame at left but you can see the circular splinter shielding. No radar visible which doesn't say much unfortunately.
The model by Colin Vass does have them though (link), but his bridge equipment on his model isn't accurate so I have no idea how much we can rely on that particular model.
Trumpy Warspite is indeed 1942 - I got misled by 1999.co.jp's wrongly translated title.
But now we have yet another theory! Instead of mulling over if it is 1 pompom director MkIV or 2, we now also wonder if it is 2 MKI's!!
So the options are:
2x MKI
Academy - 2x MKIV with 282 radar
WEM/Trumpy - 1x MKIV with 282 radar
and if either 1 or 2 turned out to be true, I'd have to either come up with another 282 (which the WEM kit lacks!) or scratch build 8 of them for 700 and 350 versions...
Hmm, I think you only need to scatch the directors without the 282s (I'd love a good closeup of Warspite bridge showing the 285s but no 282s) and then probably 4 per ship.
I have very little on the pompom Mk I (but this is more than nothing) here
Started reading about the QE class a couple of days ago after lookig at pictures of the Warspite premium kit...and this evening saw and bought a 1/350 QE for 48EUR! Since I am a big US Navy pacific fan she will be painted up in this two tone gray/blue sceme like in the color pics earlier in this thread. Does anybody know of more pics from this period? Large scale b/w photos like the ones from the NA on the US ships would be great.
At the steelnavy.com site Tim Stoneman posted a list of alteration that needed to be done to bring Trumpeters 1942 HMS Warspite to an almost 100% 1942 accurate version. http://members.boardhost.com/Warship/ms ... 51775.html
"What needs to be done depends (obviously) on how much detail one is prepared to alter for accuracy, and what period the finished model is intended to represent (most, if not all, warships underwent various additions and alterations during their careers, and WARSPITE's was longer than many).
Assuming that a 1942 version is intended by Trumpeter (after all, that's what the 1/700 kit claims to be), then there are several small changes required:
As Atma has said, the LA.DCT above the bridge (Part G12) requires RDF Type 284 (two bar-shaped aerials), and the twin 4" HA/LA mountings (Parts E23) require splinter shields around each mounting - and an additional length of splinter shield along the deck-edge between the for'd and after mountings each side. It's likely that the area of wooden deck around each 4" mounting would have been replaced by Semtex, but I've seen no confirmation of this. As is often the case with Trumpeter (why?), there are no yards on the topmasts (Parts C12 and C13) - there should be one level with the starfish (Part B2) and one higher up on the foremast, and two on the mainmast, one athwartships and one fore and aft at the same level.
There are no aerials for RDF Type 281 (admittedly these are very difficult to reproduce in plastic) - there should be one at each masthead.
The boat outfit needs further research; the cutters (Parts E14) were no longer carried between the twin 4" mountings, and the two after whalers (Parts E11) were not carried under the harbour davits on the quarterdeck when at sea; these four boats, and their davits, should not be fitted in the locations the instructions indicate (I'm not sure if they were stowed elsewhere, or had been landed). Similarly, I'm not sure if the boats abeam the after superstructure were still in position in 1942.
An MF/DF aerial was fitted on the front face of the bridge. Again, this is difficult to reproduce accurately in plastic. Surface lookout huts need to be added at shelter deck level abeam the funnel, on the for'd corners of Part B13.
Sources differ as to whether she carried RDF Type 282 (Parts PE2 and PE3) on her pompom directors, and on how many directors (and what mark) she carried. Some references indicate that there were two directors on the after superstructure, others say only one was fitted; (they, or it) would have been inside Part C7 - the kit only has one stub in this location. Shields should be fitted on each 20mm Oerlikon mounting (Parts G5).
Several ladders should be fitted; the most prominent being those leading from the upper deck to the quarterdeck.
Small sections of the armour surrounding the former 6" casemates (although the guns were never fitted, and the area largely plated over in the major modernisation) remained visible on the ship's side abreast "X" turret.
The stern anchor may have been removed by 1942. "
I underline the most urgent or critical missing things that someone has to add to the already awesome Trump's 1942 Warspite. As for me, I only added the missing aerial and the radar on the main rangefinder director. I'm lazy I know...
