Calling all Kriegsmarine Deutschland-class (Panzerschiffe) fans

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello Bill,

here you have 2 pics of the Graf Spee Arado 196 used during the atlantic mission on late 1939.

On the upper one you have it still on 2 tone green with his numbers, and below right you see it after the repaint to try to simulate an allied airplane as you can see yourself.

Bye Antonio

[Bill Gormley]

Thanks, Antonio. It didn't even occur to me they might disguise the aircraft (although the roundels should have made it obvious).

[Bill Gormley]

Does anyone have the Kagero book who would be willing to share a few photos of the rigging shown on the black-and-white fold-outs? I can make out some detail in photos of the ship but the Kagero drawings would give me more confidence regarding attachment points.

[HorribleHarry]

Hello all! I have a question about the Admiral Scheer, post rebuild.
Did the shipyard leave the lower level(s) of the "tower" in tact & add the pole mast to it, or did they raze the entire structure & build from scratch?
I'm having a difficult time with the resources I have, with weather or not there was a slight inward taper to the lowest structure of the "modified" tower/mast or if it was just a completely new rectangular structure,

Thank you very much for any assistance or any image references you can provide.

Harry

[totally_random_man]

It seems to be the case, that the lower levels remained.

[Hallis]

A Deutschland-class is on the list of things to build once I get all of the USN ships I want to build out of the way.

[Mike Coleman still]

I have been trying to find reliable information on the aft pressure bulkhead to protect the crew of the 15cm artillery against the blast of the 28cm turret. I can see it in some photos but the detail is not clear. None of my references really show it and none of the drawings I have show this detail. I have looked at various builds on the internet and most do not show this structure and the ones that do are not consistent. Some show a angled bulkhead that is straight, others have it curved, some have 3 portholes and another has 3 square vents. One has the roof as contiguous with the rest of the upper deck and covered with wood while another shows it seperated by railing from the rest of the upper deck and painted dark grey. So what is correct?

Also, in the Kagaro book of 3D drawings there is shown a long, trestle like structure just aft of the rear 28cm turret and just in front of the rear railing. looking back at photos it does appear in several. What was this for?

Mike

[Dan K]

Here's a question I've pondered on and off about this class for a while: Were the torpedos ever used with any effectiveness? Seems like they would be pretty wet most of the time, and difficult to use.

[GMG4RWF]

Here's a question I've pondered on and off about this class for a while: Were the torpedos ever used with any effectiveness? Seems like they would be pretty wet most of the time, and difficult to use.

From what I've seen I don't believe G.S. used her Torps at River Plate & the others mainly attacked merchies & avoided warships so I don't think they were used in combat. I believe they were mainly used against merchies if anything. The placement appears to be to discourage pursuit by larger/faster ships (Hood, Renown etc...)

[Oddball]

Greetings from Athens!!!
This is my first post in the forum, since I was registered (a couple of months ago).

I recently got Fujimi's Graf Spee and Deutchland. Are there any views, how these kits stand (as OOB). Although I am modelling armor for many years, I am fairly new in ship modelling and my referrences on these ships are limited to Shipcraft's Pocket Battleships. The (rather) brief reviews in this book, are not very promising. Do these kits need a lot of work, to end in a presentable model???

I would be glad to hear your oppinion

Best Regards,
Dimitris Kontos

[Sutho]

Does any one here have the current status on what items salvaged from the Admiral Graf Spee are on display in Montevideo? I am heading there on a cruise holiday in March and already know the rangefinder and anchor is on display near the Admiralty building. Is there anything else on display in that city. Also what is the current location of the stern eagle and is it in a museum anywhere?

[JH]

Afternoon

Am in the early stages of research and planning of scratch building one of the "Pocket-Battleships" in 1/700, but am having trouble in nailing down what ship and which period to portray her in, any interesting recommendations would go a long way!!

Much appreciated!

Jens

[GMG4RWF]

...Am in the early stages of research and planning of scratch building one of the "Pocket-Battleships" in 1/700, but am having trouble in nailing down what ship and which period to portray her in, any interesting recommendations would go a long way!!
...

Lots of AGS out there - most famous - the Adm. Scheer was much more successful - Dtch./Ltz. was kept on a tight leash & wasn't allowed to roam as much so was less successful & AGS was lost early (a disproof of the "outrun anything you cant outfight & outfight anything you can't outrun" theory). Scheer made several trips clear to the Indian ocean where she assisted U-Boats & DC Raiders. She also took part the invasion of Oslo (right behind Blucher when she went down). I recommend Scheer with early pole mast (the tower was more efficient but also on GS & well portrayed anyway).

[GMG4RWF]

ah... also, Maybe you could have some type VII & IXs for her to resupply.

[JH]

Hmm, interesting idea! Know of any specific sources on Scheer in Norway?

Was pondering Deutschland and her role during the Spanish civil war, she saw some limited action there if Im not mistaken??

[GMG4RWF]

Hmm, interesting idea! Know of any specific sources on Scheer in Norway?

Was pondering Deutschland and her role during the Spanish civil war, she saw some limited action there if Im not mistaken??

What I found was that all 3 were there"All three vessels served on non-intervention patrols during the Spanish Civil War. While on patrol, Deutschland was attacked by Republican bombers, and in response, Admiral Scheer bombarded the port of Almer�a. In 1937"

Deutschland: several non-intervention patrols, during which she was attacked by Republican bombers. participated in Operation Weser�bung (this said L�tzow was behind Blicher @ Oslo I thought it was Scheer)

Admiral Scheer : several deployments to Spain during the Spanish Civil War, to participate in non-intervention patrols. While off Spain, she bombarded the port of Almer�a following the Republican attack on her sister Deutschland.
commerce raiding operation into the southern Atlantic Ocean that started in late October 1940. While on the operation, she also made a brief foray into the Indian Ocean...sank 113,223 gross register tons (GRT) of shipping,[37] making her the most successful capital ship surface raider of the war.
part of the abortive attack on Convoy PQ-17 with the battleship Tirpitz...also conducted Operation Wunderland, a sortie into the Kara Sea.
end of 1944, she was used to support ground operations against the Soviet Army.

"Deutschland and Admiral Scheer were deployed to the Spanish coast on 23 July 1936 to conduct non-intervention patrols off the Republican-held coast of Spain. During the deployment, her gun turrets were painted with large black, white, and red bands to aid in identification from the air and indicate her neutral status"
"night of 8 April 1940, Group 5, with Bl�cher in the lead, passed the outer ring of Norwegian coastal batteries. L�tzow followed directly behind the flagship, with Emden astern. Steaming into the Oslofjord at a speed of 12 knots, the Germans came into range of the Norwegian guns; the 28 cm, 15 cm and 57 mm guns opened fire...Bl�cher was hit by many shells and two torpedoes. She quickly capsized and sank with the loss of approximately 1,000 sailors and soldiers. L�tzow was hit three times by 15 cm shells from Oscarsborg's Kop�s battery, causing significant damage. The damage prompted the Kriegsmarine to order her to return to Germany...L�tzow cruised at top speed to avoid submarines. Regardless, the British submarine HMS Spearfish attacked the ship and scored a serious hit. The torpedo destroyed L�tzow's stern, causing it to collapse and nearly fall off, and blew off her steering gear. Unable to steer, she was towed back to port

[Perth_shipyard]

If you want something different, while not German or Deutschland class, I'd go for the Dutch De Ruyter. She was loosely based on the Deutschland class and cast an almost same profile.

[JH]

@ GMG4RWF: Cheers for the input, really informative!
Am now pretty set on Deutschland on patrol of Spain 1937! Now it's just a matter of finding reliable source material! Do you know of any decent literature on the subject?

@Perth_shipyard: Interesting! Definitely one to keep in mind, although I've already purchased some aftermarket accessories for the Deutschland class! But defiantly one to save for later!

Thanks

Jens

[peppe]

http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/in ... 435.0.html
http://www.deutschland-class.dk/deutsch ... _menu.html
two forum very good on the ship of class and other german ww2 ships
ciao peppe

[GMG4RWF]

http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/in ... 435.0.html
http://www.deutschland-class.dk/deutsch ... _menu.html
two forum very good on the ship of class and other german ww2 ships
ciao peppe

good photos - AGS shows good pics of the black/white & red stripes on the turrets in Spain.