Jeffcsr wrote:I can't tell by the foggy pictures I've found but if Iwanted to make the Jean Bart as she was when attacked by U.S. forces during Op. Torch, would I want the Trumpeter Jean Bart(1950) or the Richilieau kit?
The Richelieu. Besides the bulge, In 1942 Jean Bart's tower bridge design was also nearly identical to Richelieu's. Only after the war was her tower bridge was drastically truncated to the low squat design you see in the computer rendering.
BTW, in 1942 Jean Bart was far from complete, almost all her secondary armaments were missing, her B turret had no roof and no guns, and her directors on top of her tower bridge were also largely missing, and the internal communication tube was exposed. In addition she had a float plane hanger on the fantail as per her original design. So you will have a lot of scratch building to do.
This older post above from 2008 seems to have answered a question I had in my mind about how to turn a Trumpeter Richelieu kit into an incomplete Jean Bart during the Battle of Casablanca.
Still, has anyone here at this thread actually pulled it off in 1/700 scale?
"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.
"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill
chuck wrote:The Richelieu. Besides the bulge, In 1942 Jean Bart's tower bridge design was also nearly identical to Richelieu's. Only after the war was her tower bridge was drastically truncated to the low squat design you see in the computer rendering.
BTW, in 1942 Jean Bart was far from complete, almost all her secondary armaments were missing, her B turret had no roof and no guns, and her directors on top of her tower bridge were also largely missing, and the internal communication tube was exposed. In addition she had a float plane hanger on the fantail as per her original design. So you will have a lot of scratch building to do.
This older post above from 2008 seems to have answered a question I had in my mind about how to turn a Trumpeter Richelieu kit into an incomplete Jean Bart during the Battle of Casablanca.
Still, has anyone here at this thread actually pulled it off in 1/700 scale?
Note that the Jean Bart had no the bulges in 1942, the Bulges came during the reconstruction 1948 - 1953.
CCGSailor wrote:Do you know if the Trumpeter's Richelieu 1943 kit has bulges as well? That's the kit I was thinking of converting, not the Jean Bart 1955 one.
Only the Jean Bart did have Bulges, the Richelieu did't have them.
Are the 1/700 wooden decks for the Trumpeter Jean Bart, such as the one at the ad below, meant for the corrected hull offered by IHP, or the uncorrected hull that comes with the Trumpeter kit?
As a general rule, no aftermarket producer would ever risk what little profit margins they have on a smaller market when they can produce something for a bigger one.
Ergo, the Wooden Decks are for the basic plastic kit, not the IHP correction
I would even hazard to guess that Wood Hunter has not even heard of the IHP replacement hull.
Timmy C wrote:As a general rule, no aftermarket producer would ever risk what little profit margins they have on a smaller market when they can produce something for a bigger one.
Ergo, the Wooden Decks are for the basic plastic kit, not the IHP correction
I would even hazard to guess that Wood Hunter has not even heard of the IHP replacement hull.
Well my main concern is whether any of the Trumpeter 1/700 Jean Bart wood decks out there on the market can even fit IHP's corrected Jean Bart hull.
From what I see in the errors described in an older post below, none of the errors would directly affect the wood deck, unless I missed something?
bgire wrote:For you, Jean Bart fans, a first list of errors in the Trumpeter 1/700 kit, translated from Mr Moitrot (Forum l'Arsenal, thanks to him) :
The overall kit is good, but :
- Both bulges are missing.
- Small roof under B main turret barrels is too short and should have angled corners forward.
- Second 57mm turrets (counting from bow) should have their base ring projecting slightly above the vertical bulkheads.
- A free passage way should exist below both fourth 100mm turrets (counting from bow).
- Wrong shape for the roof under the two 57mm turrets, just aft of the funnel.
- There is a passage way transversally, under the aft roof (which supports the central 152mm turret). The kit shows its "entrance" only on both sides.
- The three range finders on top of the 152mm turrets are identical and must use the M8 part. Unfortunately only two M8 parts are supplied.
- No searchlight by 1955 on forward blockhouse.
- Main 380mm barrels are too high in their turret : should be lowered a little.
- Portholes on both sides are wrong : Trumpeter used a Richelieu hull. Correct arrangement can be found on Jean-Bart official plans here :
All the plans : http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defens ... php?id=227
Exterior profile is the plan : C2-02
- Main deck was wood covered from the stern to the first wave breaker. Natural wood colour.
- The bottom end of the bow underwater is rounded with a triangular paravane handling plate added, as on Richelieu.
Hope this helps
"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.
"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill
Timmy C wrote:As a general rule, no aftermarket producer would ever risk what little profit margins they have on a smaller market when they can produce something for a bigger one.
Ergo, the Wooden Decks are for the basic plastic kit, not the IHP correction
I would even hazard to guess that Wood Hunter has not even heard of the IHP replacement hull.
Well my main concern is whether any of the Trumpeter 1/700 Jean Bart wood decks out there on the market can even fit IHP's corrected Jean Bart hull.
From what I see in the errors described in an older post below, none of the errors would directly affect the wood deck, unless I missed something?
bgire wrote:For you, Jean Bart fans, a first list of errors in the Trumpeter 1/700 kit, translated from Mr Moitrot (Forum l'Arsenal, thanks to him) :
The overall kit is good, but :
- Both bulges are missing.
- Small roof under B main turret barrels is too short and should have angled corners forward.
- Second 57mm turrets (counting from bow) should have their base ring projecting slightly above the vertical bulkheads.
- A free passage way should exist below both fourth 100mm turrets (counting from bow).
- Wrong shape for the roof under the two 57mm turrets, just aft of the funnel.
- There is a passage way transversally, under the aft roof (which supports the central 152mm turret). The kit shows its "entrance" only on both sides.
- The three range finders on top of the 152mm turrets are identical and must use the M8 part. Unfortunately only two M8 parts are supplied.
- No searchlight by 1955 on forward blockhouse.
- Main 380mm barrels are too high in their turret : should be lowered a little.
- Portholes on both sides are wrong : Trumpeter used a Richelieu hull. Correct arrangement can be found on Jean-Bart official plans here :
All the plans : http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defens ... php?id=227
Exterior profile is the plan : C2-02
- Main deck was wood covered from the stern to the first wave breaker. Natural wood colour.
- The bottom end of the bow underwater is rounded with a triangular paravane handling plate added, as on Richelieu.
Hope this helps
Our replacement Jean Bart hull corrects only the worst of the Trumpeter hull errors and omissions, like the bulges, the porthole patterns, and the arrangement of the anchor capstans on the forecastle (they are reversed on the Trumpeter kit). It's a waterline hull only, designed to use the upperworks of the Trumpeter kit, so you'll have to make those other detailed changes yourself if you want to go that far.
Very few wood decks are done for resin kits, unless specially ordered for them, as on some recent Free Time Hobbies kits. Not only is it a cost/volume issue, but resin parts are not consistent enough from one to the next for accurate fit every time. (For what it's worth, IHP has never heard of Wood Hunter, either. )
I was just confused about her 1943-45 camouflage so here's another question.
The Kagero 3D reference book for the Battleship Richelieu shows her in the RN light grey camouflage with a single bluish (RN colour B55) long band on both sides of her hull. If I can recall correctly, the book states she had this camouflage from "November 1943 to December 1945" upon her induction into the RN home fleet. (page 4)
However, some posts here and other sources seem to indicate she returned to wearing USN MS32 camouflage during her time in the Indian Ocean.
Therefore, so which paint scheme was she using during the Battle of the Malacca Strait in May 1945? That was when she was heading to intercept the Japanese heavy cruiser Haguro, which was sunk by RN destroyers before the French battleship could engage.
"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.
"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill
Ahem, anyone? Also, would a blue wood deck for Trumpeter's 1946 Richelieu still fit the 1943 kit?
Haijun watcher wrote:Gents,
I was just confused about her 1943-45 camouflage so here's another question.
The [url=http://>>%20Please%20refrain%20from%20posting%20links%20to%20this%20site%20as%20they%20do%20not%20respect%20our%20copyrights.%20<<.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=8689]Kagero 3D reference book for the Battleship Richelieu[/url] shows her in the RN light grey camouflage with a single bluish (RN colour B55) long band on both sides of her hull. If I can recall correctly, the book states she had this camouflage from "November 1943 to December 1945" upon her induction into the RN home fleet. (page 4)
However, some posts here and other sources seem to indicate she returned to wearing USN MS32 camouflage during her time in the Indian Ocean.
Therefore, so which paint scheme was she using during the Battle of the Malacca Strait in May 1945? That was when she was heading to intercept the Japanese heavy cruiser Haguro, which was sunk by RN destroyers before the French battleship could engage.
"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.
"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill
According to John Jordan & Robert Dumas French Battleships 1922-1956 (Seaforth Publishing, 2009), the US Measure 32 camouflage was replaced by a variant of the British Admiralty Standard comouflage when she returned to Trincomalee after Operation COCKPIT (attack on Sabang) in April 1944. Her hull was then light grey with a dark blue panel running from the muzzles of I 15" turret to the break of the foc's'le deck. Most of the upperworks were also light grey, but main and secondary armament turrets, the funnel/after superstructure and some smaller AA gun mountings were medium grey. Decks remained the US Deck Blue. She remained thus until repainted during a port visit to Dakar in autumn 1946.
tjstoneman wrote:According to John Jordan & Robert Dumas French Battleships 1922-1956 (Seaforth Publishing, 2009), the US Measure 32 camouflage was replaced by a variant of the British Admiralty Standard comouflage when she returned to Trincomalee after Operation COCKPIT (attack on Sabang) in April 1944. Her hull was then light grey with a dark blue panel running from the muzzles of I 15" turret to the break of the foc's'le deck. Most of the upperworks were also light grey, but main and secondary armament turrets, the funnel/after superstructure and some smaller AA gun mountings were medium grey. Decks remained the US Deck Blue. She remained thus until repainted during a port visit to Dakar in autumn 1946.
Thanks a great deal.
I see that the Kagero book is also wrong since its images depict the ship in that British RN camouflage but with unpainted wooden decks instead of the US deck blue.
"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.
"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill
So if some borderline crazy person wanted to convert the trumpeter 1/350 kit to a 1940-'41 fit, where would they find decent plans or references? I have the French Battleships books and it is a start, but not a complete help. Any and all guidance would be greatly appreciated.
I'm painting the hull of my Trumpeter Richelieu (1943) and have a quick question. I've been back reading through the thread and note on page 6 it depicts Richelieu with faded camouflage. My question is, was this fading, ever painted out solid prior to Richelieu being repainted with RN paint colours?
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