Calling all Iowa-class (BB-61) fans

[Fliger747]

That deck was greatly expanded from the original construction, I have no info on this but would guess the original did not.

Tom

[Cliffy B]

The flag bag does stop at the deck if viewed externally but it does continue on down inside and end with the familiar curved bottom; my mistake. I got some shots of the bags, the frame, and the director tube and its surrounding structure. I'll post them up later tonight.

Here you go: http://s647.photobucket.com/user/Cliffy ... nal%20Deck

Case sensitive Password: Battleship

[RandyM]

Very interesting - to me - find. Check out photo #8760 in that group - it's a view looking aft at the front of the starboard director support structure. Look at the deck where the bulkhead meets, in the area where the tube penetrates the deck. I bet that's not in the kit

[Fliger747]

Mo Photos (no pun intended...)

[RandyM]

Next question... and this one may be more difficult to solve. It was so hot in Southern California this weekend that I decided to stay inside. I spent some time working on various parts of the 3d model as well as the actual hull. I have found that the research resolves into two basic categories: parts of the ship which are still in their as-built configuration, and parts which are not. Obviously there are far fewer photographic records (at least, that I have found) for the latter category. One such area is the mk51 director tub for the forward-most 40mm installations on the 01 deck. I have basic data from the plans and various photos I have found, but am specifically lacking in (at least) two areas:

- the 40mm ammo cupola, which from the plans appears to be two cylinders mounted on the deck adjacent to the 40mm tub, and
- the stand for the director tub.

See the image below - the first shows the cupola (of which only one of the cylinders is "installed"), while the second shows the stand. Absent any real data, I used the same basic style as the ones in use on the forecastle.

[Fliger747]

Items no longer installed, removed with the 40 mm tub. Joy-Z photos show no elevated structure here, director was either at deck level by the mount or possibly 05 level. Interpretation of photos I can find suggest that the round object was a director tub, possibly covered over later when the mounts were removed. Note location of toe of inclined ladder. Life ring is currently installed in a similar location on the main deck bulkhead.

Will look for Mo photos.


Tom

[Fliger747]

Page 90, Stillwell, Mo Book, has a photo partially showing this structure attached to the tub and plated over on top. Definitely not a director location. Page 88 shows an overhead view of the decks.

Tom

[Fliger747]

ABC drawings and sketch of surrender deck layout (for the event) suggest some sort of ventilator head.

[RandyM]

Here's a (pilfered) photo of the G&C Builder's model of this area, which shows the director tub elevated above the 40mm tub. The FDD plans call for an elevation which puts the base of the director tub precisely at the top of the 40mm tub's shield. Note that these plans reference all elevations to the ship's baseline.



And here is one of a model of Iowa in 1/48th scale of the same area.



Both pics seem to show the mk51 director tub as being elevated above the armament - which would be consistent with all other sites save for those on top of turrets 2 and 3. I have several other shots of the actual ships but none are as clear as these.

[Fliger747]

Interesting as I did not find a single photo in any of my Iowa class books showing this as installed during service. Possibly removed after the shakedown? It may be installed in a sept 1943 photo of Joy-Z at the end of her shakedown (Stillwell p 36, Joy-z) when she is still equipped with the open bridge walkway ala Sodak.

My guess is that this was removed when the bridge was reworked sometime after 8 July 1943 (photo pp28-29 book as above)!. Iowa had them as completed as well, but with the open bridge. FRIEDMAN SHOWS THEM IN AN AD BAKER drawing page 318, again with the open bridge. Stillwell, Mo book has an ABC drawing on pp 394-395 which is as completed (before shakedown). Gone in the June 1945 drawing pp 396-397.

A very bad position blast wise from the nearby 5" 38 mounts which were likely to firing at the same time.

So we are back to the old which ship and when issue.

Hope this did more than muddy the waters.

Tom

[RandyM]

Objective proof... Iowa in '47, with enclosed bridge. Oila'

Still no photos of the "40mm ammunition cupola."

Sumrall, Iowa Class Battleships, pg110.

[James M]

The 40mm ammo cupola is a passing scuttle for 40mm rounds. There would be a access door inside the gun tub.
Someone would stand inside the scuttle and pass rounds/clips through the opening into the gun tub.

These are also on the aft gun tubs and the the director platform/shield are mounted on top of it.

James

[RandyM]

That makes great sense. The only information I have is as shown in the image below: the cupola (which is labeled on the opposite-side drawing: I happened to scan this side) is represented by the two overlapping circles forward (right) of the director tub. It appears the smaller circle is actually part of the 40mm tub (the hatch, as you describe). So is the crewman standing in the larger circle, passing ammo via the smaller circle to someone in the gun tub?

[James M]

The crewman would be in the round part on the deck. There is a platform in it where he stands.
There would be other crew members below him passing the clips from the clipping room below.
here is a photo of the basic shape:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/ ... 0_0146.jpg

I think the second round object is a rotary scuttle. although it doesn't extend into the gun tub.
I have a photo of what the door looks like somewhere. I will try and find it.
James

[Fliger747]

The small hooded area is called a 40 mm ammunition handling cupola with a small 40 mm magazine directly below..

T

[BB62vet]

Randy,

Per your 3D rendition with the arrow pointing to the FC Director Pedestal behind the 40mm tub - I believe this is not a round pedestal but a "U" shaped base - I have modified your blueprint to show (not to scale) what I believe is the correct FC tub base. I am basing this assumption on various photos of that particular gun tub and its assoc. FC equipment that I've looked at via NavSource, etc. Not a lot of good photos close up of that equipment.

Hope this helps your 3D project!

Hank

[Fliger747]

Main deck Plan BB63,wartime. These 40 mm ready service lockers/magazines have been currently absorbed as a wardroom stores locker stbd and security force locker portside.

The fire control tubs were unquestionably removed at a very early stage in the operational careers of some members of the class. For my project I have the advantage of many photographs of the ship in a relatively close iteration of the era that I am building it. It would be fascinating to be able to know what was changed during the careers of these ships, when and why.

The aft tubs on BB63 do not have the ammunition handling cupolas currently on the fantail whereas these were shown as still expressed on one of the other ships in the photo bucket link above. The magazine space below is currently a CPO storeroom.

Cheers: T

[RandyM]

Hank, Tom, James, et al... THANKS. This is all hugely helpful. Just to clarify my interpretation...

The cupola as explained makes good sense to me: somehow the ammo must be replenished, and the simplest would be a man-powered chain from the clipping room to the gun emplacement. That link is a man standing in a shielded cupola. The connection between the cupola and the gun tub is understood based on drawings, photos, and James' description.

However, there are still some pieces missing. For example, my blueprints indicate the cupola is only 48-inches tall. So either short sailors were selected for this GQ billet or the cupola extended below the 01 deck level. Also, I don't see the connection between the cupola and the clipping room (and now is where you may have to advise me to step back from the edge). Along with all the exterior work, I have been completing very rough approximation of interior arrangements. I'm mostly concentrating on the main/01 decks so far. But as shown in the image below - which shows the interior below by basically turning the intermediate decking "off", the cupola sits inboard of the clipping room below, and there is no hint of any mechanical hoist or other means of getting ammo up to the man in the cupola. There is a hatch in the 01 deck which is relatively close, but its twin does not exist on the port side, so.... ???

[Fliger747]

Aft the 40 mm ready service locker also does not exactly sit below the cupola, but over a passage next to the RSL. Not too important for an external model, but an interesting sidelight on the operation of these weapons. It could have been something as simple as a sailor opening an overhead access hatch and standing on a wardroom table and tossing clipped rounds into a rotating scuttle. The location of the "hoods" adjacent to the magazines suggests a somewhat ad hoc replenishment system relying somewhat on an old fashioned change gang method of passing the light AA ammunition.

Having trouble locating the lengthy document that I have somewhere on the 40 mm mount maintenance and operation. Maybe something in there.

T

[James M]

The top of the copula would be 48" off the deck as it would be only half of the structure.
The other lower halve would be below the deck. Think of the structure being half way between the deck with a person standing in it.
There would be crewmen in the clipping room passing rounds to the man in the copula then he would pass them to the gun tub.
This was a manual way of getting rounds up one deck.
Hope this helps.

Everywhere there is a 40mm mount there will be a clipping room / ready service locker nearby.
On the Iowas they are all internal. Also there will be spare barrel storage near the clipping room.

James